How Lee LeBaigue Uses AI Policy Checking to Catch Coverage Gaps

Lee [0:00:00]: Like any industry, you gotta learn the heck out it.

Lee [0:00:02]: What does the insured really need?

Lee [0:00:03]: What kind of loss control really helps them?

Lee [0:00:05]: What kind of problems are they facing?

Lee [0:00:07]: Being able to figure that out, understand it and get in and have a reason to call or talk to a prospect other than Hey, Siri insurance is coming up in the next ninety days.

Lee [0:00:17]: That is so tired.

Callan [0:00:21]: Welcome to the Insurance Growth Lab.

Callan [0:00:23]: Where we go deep on the growth campaigns and strategies driving real results in the insurance tree.

Callan [0:00:29]: I´m Callan Harrington founder of Flashgrowth and in each episode, I sit down with marketing and growth leaders from carriers and shirt tech and top brokers to break down one specific initiative, whether it's how they marketed a product, scale a channel or solve a specific growth challenge.

Callan [0:00:46]: It's no fluff, just tactical insights you can apply in your own company.

Callan [0:00:51]: Lee, I'm really excited for this episode.

Callan [0:00:57]: One, I feel like you've had multiple different lives within your career.

Callan [0:01:02]: Yeah, you made this post.

Callan [0:01:04]: I saw recently, and I was talking to you about in some of our conversations about you were in a band and almost like you brought the band back together.

Callan [0:01:11]: There's like, a lot of people there.

Callan [0:01:12]: You know, you said that the ban taught you a lot about insurance?

Callan [0:01:16]: I have no idea how that's possible, but can you walk us through that?

Callan [0:01:20]: What did the band teach you and help you about it with an insurance specifically.

Lee [0:01:24]: Yeah.

Lee [0:01:24]: I don't know if it would be necessarily insurance specifically, but certainly business.

Lee [0:01:28]: We were, bunch of friends hanging out in Los Angeles.

Lee [0:01:32]: I had recently quit my job.

Lee [0:01:35]: You know, I was in my early twenties.

Lee [0:01:37]: My mom was losing her mind.

Lee [0:01:39]: Why would you put your job?

Lee [0:01:40]: I had a good job was doing sound for movies.

Lee [0:01:43]: So I quit that moved in with the band, you know, six guys in a two bedroom in Hollywood.

Lee [0:01:47]: And so then we pretty quickly realized that if we're gonna make this work we needed to be savvy.

Lee [0:01:53]: And some of that was how are we gonna present ourselves online.

Lee [0:01:58]: Alright.

Lee [0:01:58]: I'll figure out how to make websites?

Lee [0:02:00]: What does merch look like?

Lee [0:02:01]: How do we sell?

Lee [0:02:02]: How much what are margins you could be?

Lee [0:02:03]: How does that work?

Lee [0:02:04]: Who does what?

Lee [0:02:05]: Who talks to the booking agents?

Lee [0:02:07]: You know what Mean?

Lee [0:02:07]: And a lot of...

Lee [0:02:08]: There's a lot of that business savvy You don't realize that goes on, even in a punk band.

Lee [0:02:13]: So it was maybe three months of living in that house and kinda going oh, man, this is not gonna go well how we thought, and then we took it seriously and got signed to a record label and then pretty soon we were on the work tour, and then we were nonstop touring for about four years.

Lee [0:02:32]: You, I was home maybe a couple weeks a year.

Lee [0:02:35]: And from that transition into...

Lee [0:02:39]: Alright.

Lee [0:02:39]: I now had to do online marketing now.

Lee [0:02:41]: I did it.

Lee [0:02:42]: Right?

Lee [0:02:43]: Yeah.

Lee [0:02:43]: Then took that into my next career, and that really paid off once you get an insurance, you can't get out as everyone that listens to this.

Callan [0:02:51]: My well know.

Lee [0:02:52]: Yeah.

Lee [0:02:52]: Even though I trying to get the band going and make its money there.

Lee [0:02:56]: That's just a money loser at this point.

Lee [0:02:57]: But it's fun.

Lee [0:02:58]: Yeah.

Lee [0:02:59]: But figuring out how to do marketing it, you know, every insurance agency has a a pipeline, and they figure out how to make that pipeline work in and that's a big part of of getting it done?

Lee [0:03:10]: So, you know, when I think about how do I show up online?

Lee [0:03:14]: In an the insurance agency perspective.

Lee [0:03:16]: You know what does that look like?

Lee [0:03:17]: It directly translate.

Lee [0:03:19]: So...

Callan [0:03:20]: I think it's really interesting in that Like, what you described was it a small business owner starting a business from scratch.

Lee [0:03:28]: Yep.

Callan [0:03:29]: And we've got a product, and we need to figure out how to get awareness of this product.

Callan [0:03:35]: And then you realized as a small business owner, you have to do everything.

Callan [0:03:38]: I remember starting As an agent.

Callan [0:03:40]: When I was captive, it didn't matter, but when I went to...

Callan [0:03:43]: I mean, it I shouldn't say that.

Callan [0:03:44]: When I was captive, it did matter, but I still had a lot of things that were done for me.

Callan [0:03:48]: It was more of like, a franchise.

Lee [0:03:50]: Yeah.

Callan [0:03:50]: When I was independent, the first big punch in the face I had was when I was getting my first out of state license.

Callan [0:03:56]: Yep.

Callan [0:03:56]: And I was, oh, I didn't know that these were all different.

Callan [0:03:59]: One.

Callan [0:03:59]: Two, I didn't know that I had no idea.

Callan [0:04:02]: Like, okay.

Callan [0:04:03]: Who do I reach out to?

Callan [0:04:04]: It's not just reaching out to the person that did this.

Callan [0:04:06]: It was...

Callan [0:04:07]: You've gotta figure this out every single time, and you just have to figure out all the things.

Lee [0:04:11]: Yep.

Callan [0:04:11]: And it sounds like it was an interesting parallel.

Callan [0:04:13]: And you've been really successful in the insurance world.

Callan [0:04:16]: Right?

Callan [0:04:16]: You...

Callan [0:04:17]: You know, for a long time, you're an agency owner of a fourteen million revenue agency.

Callan [0:04:21]: And I know you had exited your shares there, and now you're running the retail agency of the fifth largest network at Is asu.

Callan [0:04:28]: And the reason for that I really wanted to have you on today's call was I've told you this, and I've said this other people.

Callan [0:04:35]: You have one of the sharpest minds when it comes to marketing in tech within an insurance agency.

Callan [0:04:43]: And I always thought this, from the first time we met at the aforementioned agency, but One of the things that I've been wanting to do is get people in the show that I've got real examples of using Ai, and we talked about some of the ways that you're doing, I'm, like, we gotta get you on.

Callan [0:04:58]: Like, this is very interesting.

Callan [0:04:59]: And so we're gonna cover two areas on that.

Callan [0:05:02]: We're gonna cover policy checking, which been your experience that?

Callan [0:05:05]: What tools are you using?

Callan [0:05:06]: How are you using it?

Callan [0:05:08]: What are some real examples that have came up?

Callan [0:05:09]: And then then I wanna dive into...

Callan [0:05:11]: This is where I think you you have some world class ideas on in the gathering public information to have better ways to reach out to drive business.

Callan [0:05:21]: That sounds big broad and convoluted, we'll get into the weeds on that, which I'm really excited about.

Callan [0:05:27]: But first, When we talk about policy checking, what does that mean to you?

Callan [0:05:32]: And then what does your process look like for that.

Lee [0:05:35]: So I'm fortunate in that, I found a a great role at Is steadfast, and they are forward thinking.

Lee [0:05:41]: So when I come with an idea, I have to have it well, fought out.

Lee [0:05:46]: They'll challenge my idea, but they're...

Lee [0:05:48]: For the most part, say, yeah.

Lee [0:05:49]: Let's go with...

Lee [0:05:50]: Let's go for it.

Lee [0:05:51]: Right?

Lee [0:05:51]: The Is asu network has a great group within it called the agency principle form, and this agency principle forum is the me of fifty different agencies kinda get together.

Lee [0:06:03]: We have a little chat internally.

Lee [0:06:05]: We have a forum message board.

Lee [0:06:07]: We meet up, and I'm able to bounce ideas off of these folks.

Lee [0:06:10]: Right?

Lee [0:06:11]: Yeah.

Lee [0:06:11]: So when I joined in September, so Haven't been here very long.

Lee [0:06:14]: We were doing policy checking and we were doing it overseas.

Lee [0:06:17]: Very common.

Lee [0:06:18]: A lot of people do this.

Lee [0:06:19]: If you don't do policy checking, The idea here is maybe you have an incumbent carrier and you're moving them.

Lee [0:06:27]: It's a renewal.

Lee [0:06:27]: You're moving them to a new carrier.

Lee [0:06:29]: You wanna make sure that you don't have anything missing, and they can get really nitty gritty into those forms and exclusions.

Lee [0:06:35]: And you can have a three hundred page policy.

Lee [0:06:38]: Traditionally, you'd have somebody very senior in your office, comb through it and make sure you're good.

Lee [0:06:44]: More often than not, more than people like to admit, nobody looks at anything, or they look over it very very casually, and it doesn't really become an issue until it goes to court.

Lee [0:06:54]: Yeah.

Lee [0:06:55]: And nobody wants that.

Lee [0:06:56]: So what we were doing was sending it overseas to our, you know, hired Va company very common.

Lee [0:07:02]: And those folks would have a list, a checklist.

Lee [0:07:06]: Doesn't have this?

Lee [0:07:07]: Does it have that?

Lee [0:07:08]: Is, you know, and they'd go through it and it was cumbersome, slow, expensive, and I felt like, maybe there's something missing here, like, this isn't catching what we need to catch.

Callan [0:07:22]: Did you catch anything we're like, hey.

Callan [0:07:23]: We're paying for this.

Callan [0:07:24]: I found this, this was supposed to be good.

Callan [0:07:27]: What prompted that.

Lee [0:07:29]: So within the Is asu group, I I kept...

Lee [0:07:31]: I get demo calls from companies like, all the time.

Lee [0:07:34]: And so I was getting the, hey, we got a new Ai tool.

Lee [0:07:37]: Hey, we got a new Ai tool.

Lee [0:07:38]: But about no joke Cow nine of these companies were sort of competing for the policy checking, And I didn't know who to pick.

Lee [0:07:45]: I was overwhelmed and overloaded.

Lee [0:07:47]: It finally came to head when I said, we just...

Lee [0:07:49]: Well, this is this is taking too long.

Lee [0:07:51]: Our process is not great.

Lee [0:07:53]: I've got a bike the bullet.

Lee [0:07:54]: And the Is folks were using a company called out market.

Lee [0:07:57]: Great.

Lee [0:07:58]: I said, you know what?

Lee [0:07:59]: I'm gonna try that just because I know other companies using them in the Is network.

Lee [0:08:03]: Yeah.

Lee [0:08:03]: They had some good feedback on it, and so we use that.

Lee [0:08:05]: So we started going through, and it was picking up some things that we hadn't picked up.

Lee [0:08:10]: One of them was a suite number.

Lee [0:08:11]: We had had it wrong for a couple years.

Lee [0:08:14]: That's not good.

Lee [0:08:15]: You don't want a wrong suite number.

Lee [0:08:16]: If there's something really bad happens, You know, the insurance carrier could than I coverage, etcetera.

Lee [0:08:21]: But the real big one was we had an insured.

Lee [0:08:24]: We had their base coverage.

Lee [0:08:25]: It was an renewal standard incumbent renewal, you know, not a lot changing in the policy.

Lee [0:08:30]: And we had a a base policy, out market said all good seems to be fine.

Lee [0:08:36]: But did you know their excess policy doesn't cover what they do.

Lee [0:08:40]: To which I said how we've had this account for fifteen years or something...

Lee [0:08:45]: You know, long long before I arrived?

Lee [0:08:47]: And the account manager was immediately alarmed.

Lee [0:08:51]: Saying board accessible policy does he cover what they do.

Lee [0:08:55]: What are they paying for?

Lee [0:08:56]: And then the under right knew.

Lee [0:08:58]: And so the under writer's comment was, will, it'll be a lot more

Callan [0:09:03]: expensive.

Callan [0:09:03]: Boy.

Callan [0:09:05]: Yeah.

Callan [0:09:06]: So

Lee [0:09:08]: right there, it's paying for itself.

Lee [0:09:10]: We're a better agency.

Lee [0:09:11]: We're doing better by clients.

Lee [0:09:13]: We're more thorough.

Lee [0:09:14]: It's not necessarily a time saver, but we're we're a better agency now?

Lee [0:09:19]: Because we're doing this process.

Lee [0:09:21]: We're able to be more thorough.

Lee [0:09:23]: And then my fear, right?

Lee [0:09:25]: The fear is like, what if it makes up stuff.

Lee [0:09:27]: I've used chap Gp since it came out, and it's made up all kinds of stuff.

Lee [0:09:32]: So then it's...

Lee [0:09:33]: How does it know how it...

Lee [0:09:34]: Is it right.

Lee [0:09:35]: The truth is my process is I have a final person, you know, they all have Cs designations.

Lee [0:09:42]: Right?

Lee [0:09:42]: They're well trained professionals.

Lee [0:09:44]: The output from the policy checking give citations.

Lee [0:09:47]: So you click on it.

Lee [0:09:48]: It opens the Pdf.

Lee [0:09:49]: Right to the three hundred page document.

Lee [0:09:52]: Right to the correct area, it says, we read it yourself.

Lee [0:09:55]: Here you go.

Lee [0:09:55]: Yeah.

Lee [0:09:56]: So now we can check it.

Lee [0:09:57]: Right?

Lee [0:09:58]: But it doesn't take so long.

Callan [0:10:00]: Yeah.

Callan [0:10:00]: What you just said I think is critical.

Callan [0:10:03]: A couple things.

Callan [0:10:03]: One, it's not so much an efficiency game, but it makes you a true adviser.

Callan [0:10:07]: Yep.

Callan [0:10:08]: You know, the example you gave, which I think is a phenomenal example in that, you know, the reality is if if the price didn't go up dramatically, most wouldn't touch it.

Callan [0:10:18]: So you actually are adding time.

Lee [0:10:20]: Yep.

Callan [0:10:20]: That being said, you know, I think where things are getting really interesting is, you know, is this looking at...

Callan [0:10:26]: You've got x amount of You've got it...

Callan [0:10:29]: This is your limit that you have for x, whatever whatever that risk is.

Callan [0:10:34]: And, typically, businesses like yours don't really see much there, but you're under insured in this.

Callan [0:10:40]: So you're actually over insured here, but under insured here.

Callan [0:10:42]: Here's our suggestion on this, Cost is gonna be relatively the same.

Callan [0:10:46]: That's where it's like you...

Callan [0:10:48]: In the agents are be almost have to become a true adviser.

Callan [0:10:51]: And they're paying for that final mile that you just...

Callan [0:10:53]: Like, the value is in that final mile.

Callan [0:10:56]: Yep.

Callan [0:10:56]: I've got an example.

Callan [0:10:57]: I think I shared this with you where we'll create brains for each of our clients.

Callan [0:11:01]: Yep.

Callan [0:11:02]: And that'll have our call transcripts that'll have the documents that we've we've gotten depends on the client, of course.

Callan [0:11:08]: But if a new study comes in, we'll ping it against some of those and say, like, hey, here's some things to be aware of.

Callan [0:11:14]: But you have to fact check it.

Lee [0:11:16]: Yeah.

Callan [0:11:17]: Meaning, oftentimes, I'll make sure, like, within my Claude skills and things like that, that it's surfacing a link or it's giving me the exact words.

Callan [0:11:24]: And so to your point, you know exactly where to go and to double check.

Callan [0:11:29]: Yep.

Callan [0:11:29]: The scary thing is is, you know, in it's current state, how many people are just letting that fly regardless.

Lee [0:11:35]: Yeah.

Lee [0:11:35]: That's where it...

Lee [0:11:36]: Like anything in the...

Lee [0:11:37]: Before Ai.

Lee [0:11:38]: Right?

Lee [0:11:39]: You you just have to be a good operator.

Lee [0:11:41]: You gotta do your due diligence, and you you have to understand what the tools you're working with, how to use them, and then how to be a trusted adviser.

Lee [0:11:49]: Yeah.

Lee [0:11:50]: I was using c copilot today or anne Claude, and c copilot completely made up something.

Lee [0:11:56]: And I knew it was wrong.

Lee [0:11:58]: Yeah.

Lee [0:11:59]: And I questioned it...

Lee [0:12:00]: And I hate when you questioned it and it goes, oh, you're right.

Lee [0:12:02]: Well, okay.

Lee [0:12:03]: But it's the worst.

Callan [0:12:07]: Well, one of the tips I got on this that I really liked was and it sounds like you did the exact same thing.

Callan [0:12:12]: But when that does happen or if you're unsure, validate it with a couple of them, validate it with chat, Claude, Gemini, c copilot.

Callan [0:12:21]: And c, or is somebody else ref that evidence.

Lee [0:12:25]: Yep.

Callan [0:12:26]: And, of course, you know, cross link and cross reference, read the actual links, read where this actually came from.

Callan [0:12:31]: But all the times you can use that in that way, like, if you built something that in Include, you're not sure, have chat Gp review.

Callan [0:12:37]: And I know you're talking about, that's kind of like a to get a one off instance, you knew that as the expert that that wasn't right.

Callan [0:12:43]: So then you tell it, and it get...

Callan [0:12:44]: Yeah.

Callan [0:12:45]: It gives you that, oh, you're right.

Callan [0:12:46]: Actually, I'm gonna revise this based off of this.

Callan [0:12:49]: Yep.

Callan [0:12:49]: And so that's super interesting.

Callan [0:12:51]: No.

Callan [0:12:52]: I'm curious.

Callan [0:12:53]: You mentioned it makes you a better agency, and it puts you in more of an adviser status, and it might be way too early to tell on this, but are you seeing the impact on that?

Callan [0:13:01]: Are you seeing the...

Callan [0:13:02]: Whether that's in N mps, customer satisfaction, referrals, whatever that might be?

Callan [0:13:08]: Are you seeing that at all yet?

Callan [0:13:09]: Or is it too early to tell?

Lee [0:13:11]: Yes.

Lee [0:13:11]: Several key accounts mentioning they really like the summaries, the new proposals.

Lee [0:13:16]: Going out of their way.

Lee [0:13:17]: We're not we're not prompting them to tell us.

Lee [0:13:20]: Yep.

Lee [0:13:20]: They're going out of their way to tell us.

Lee [0:13:22]: And my team are sending me notes, and they're excited.

Lee [0:13:25]: And they're saying, look at what I built, like, how I did this.

Lee [0:13:28]: This...

Lee [0:13:28]: Look what I found today.

Lee [0:13:30]: And it's a big deal.

Lee [0:13:31]: Yeah.

Lee [0:13:31]: And if it ever goes down, and everyone yells, then you know you've got something good and that happen.

Lee [0:13:36]: You know, it goes down for a hour or something, you know, some update whatever and everyone's freaking out.

Lee [0:13:40]: That's that's the best.

Callan [0:13:42]: That is such a great point and is so true.

Callan [0:13:45]: Because, I mean the reality is you become dependent on the...

Callan [0:13:47]: I think everybody knows when Claude chat Apt out because it's all over x reddit, whatever that might be, but that's such a great point and I guess just where on the out market.

Callan [0:13:59]: Is there anything else that you're using that for outside of the policy checking or is that the main use case that you're using it for?

Lee [0:14:04]: Proposals, but also submissions.

Lee [0:14:06]: So I'm a big proponent of being a good partner with our under writers.

Lee [0:14:12]: So give them a good summary.

Lee [0:14:15]: Right?

Lee [0:14:15]: Tell, you know, that narrative is so important.

Lee [0:14:18]: And some people are good writers, some people are not great writers, and it doesn't need to be a paragraph.

Lee [0:14:22]: Your under writer will tell you what they need, what they want.

Lee [0:14:24]: But when you can summarize and give a really holistic picture of an account.

Lee [0:14:29]: You've gone through the loss runs.

Lee [0:14:31]: You've really comb over it.

Lee [0:14:33]: That is so much easier to do now with Ai, not the generic.

Lee [0:14:38]: You know, chat Gp.

Lee [0:14:40]: I highly recommend you get a an insurance designed chat for that.

Lee [0:14:46]: But once you do, it's a game changer.

Callan [0:14:49]: What's the difference?

Callan [0:14:50]: Can you walk us to a difference?

Lee [0:14:51]: Yeah.

Lee [0:14:51]: Still, I can put loss runs into to chat Gp or cloud or c copilot.

Lee [0:14:57]: And it can make things up or miss things.

Lee [0:14:59]: And then you're having to come through it line by line again anyway.

Lee [0:15:03]: When I put them in into out market, I get a much more accurate.

Lee [0:15:07]: I have not seen it not be accurate I check them all anyway.

Lee [0:15:10]: Just because you know.

Lee [0:15:11]: But, it's a lot faster because it has that citation button so you can click on it and go exactly to the document and it opens up on the same window.

Lee [0:15:19]: So the checking is much faster.

Lee [0:15:21]: But the, you know, the submission narrative is is a much cleaner.

Lee [0:15:25]: It's a cleaner a way to send details to an under android.

Lee [0:15:29]: And then you get to the top of the stack.

Lee [0:15:32]: Right?

Lee [0:15:32]: You you keep sending them good stuff that they understand.

Lee [0:15:34]: It's not that they always need the cleanest a count.

Lee [0:15:37]: Producers get that wrong.

Lee [0:15:39]: It's they need to understand how to price it.

Lee [0:15:41]: If they can't understand how to price it, then they're lost.

Lee [0:15:44]: They're not gonna give you a price or they're gonna reject it, or it's gonna get the standard treatment.

Lee [0:15:49]: But if you want a special relationship with an under writer, do a good job with your submissions.

Callan [0:15:54]: What has been the response of under writers when you've...

Callan [0:15:57]: When you've used that process.

Lee [0:16:00]: Great.

Lee [0:16:00]: It's fast.

Lee [0:16:00]: It's good.

Lee [0:16:01]: We're getting...

Lee [0:16:02]: We're getting communications back?

Lee [0:16:03]: You know, faster than we used to.

Lee [0:16:05]: It's a bit tricky.

Lee [0:16:06]: You have to temper it sometimes.

Lee [0:16:08]: Right?

Lee [0:16:09]: It's kinda like anything when you're using Ai, it may be a bit verbose, and you need to drill down, but you just tell it that.

Callan [0:16:17]: Yep.

Callan [0:16:17]: Hundred percent.

Callan [0:16:18]: Okay.

Callan [0:16:18]: I wanna talk a little bit now on, like, the new business side.

Lee [0:16:22]: Yep.

Callan [0:16:23]: I've said this before.

Callan [0:16:24]: I mean, you've proved this in the trucking space pretty heavily.

Callan [0:16:27]: You had some of the most unique ways of driving this business Now I'd love to talk about, you know, you gave an example when we're preparing for this this show on how you're using Ai to comb public information and generate opportunities as a resolve.

Callan [0:16:46]: Can you walk us through what that looks like specifically.

Lee [0:16:49]: Yes.

Lee [0:16:49]: So in trucking, you have a lot of public information if anybody's dealt with trucking, you know about the Fm, they publish a ton of data typically that data was you had to pay a third party to get access to that data.

Lee [0:17:04]: I still do.

Lee [0:17:04]: Because under writers are looking at, you know, I I use Cab.

Lee [0:17:07]: I love Cab.

Lee [0:17:07]: They're great.

Lee [0:17:08]: But I can go and get that data now.

Lee [0:17:11]: Before, it was too unwilling.

Lee [0:17:13]: It was hundreds of thousands of rows in an excel spreadsheet, and the data is not that clean, and it's hard to work with and your computer will frees up and forget it.

Lee [0:17:24]: Right?

Lee [0:17:24]: Very tough.

Lee [0:17:25]: Now with Ai, I can get very specific.

Lee [0:17:28]: So I know from, like any industry?

Lee [0:17:31]: You gotta learn the heck out it.

Lee [0:17:33]: What does the insured really need?

Lee [0:17:34]: What kinda loss control really helps them?

Lee [0:17:36]: What kind of problems are they facing?

Lee [0:17:38]: So I did a lot of research into that.

Lee [0:17:40]: Figuring out what trucking companies are really looking for in safety.

Lee [0:17:43]: And so in that, I can identify some key areas.

Lee [0:17:47]: I'm using Claude for this.

Lee [0:17:49]: Tell Claude, hey, this is what I'm looking for.

Lee [0:17:51]: I need to figure out how to build a database with these sort of target information, I need the owner's name, their email, their phone number, their address, wanna filter out these, particular carriers they're with.

Lee [0:18:04]: I'd love a little email message so I could just copy paste the right about out of Excel or...

Lee [0:18:10]: And it...

Lee [0:18:10]: It's great.

Lee [0:18:11]: It's great at that.

Lee [0:18:12]: It specifically hold me trucking companies that maybe have done a poor job with their Dot compliance.

Lee [0:18:18]: So then I know when I call or I have my team call, we can have a narrative there.

Lee [0:18:23]: Another one would be around, you know, work comp.

Lee [0:18:26]: We're Complex states.

Lee [0:18:27]: Mh.

Lee [0:18:27]: Osha data, new construction startup.

Lee [0:18:30]: There's a lot of public data.

Lee [0:18:33]: The problem is the datasets sets are so massive that your average person just couldn't even deal with them.

Lee [0:18:38]: That has changed.

Lee [0:18:39]: And so being able to figure that out, understand it and get in and have a reason to call or talk to a prospect other than, hey, See your insurance is coming up in the next ninety days.

Lee [0:18:51]: That is so tired.

Lee [0:18:53]: Yeah.

Lee [0:18:53]: So the game is changing a bit.

Lee [0:18:56]: And, you know, your your big shops do this kind of thing already, but typically, maybe they have the money to buy in, sort of infinite resources.

Lee [0:19:05]: Right?

Lee [0:19:06]: And they'll have a third party that comes in and does this for them.

Lee [0:19:08]: Well, now you can get that done with a relatively inexpensive subscription to an Ai model.

Callan [0:19:15]: So if I playing that back, what I'm hearing you say is, you know, you gave the trucking example specifically, but there's public information and really, I mean, it's...

Callan [0:19:23]: What I'm kinda hearing is, like, if you have a niche, and you really know that niche, you know the specific items that could be public information that if you had them, you can have a much better introductory conversation or doesn't necessarily be interested.

Callan [0:19:39]: It could be a current client as well.

Callan [0:19:41]: But essentially, if you really know that, you can have Ai make sense of large datasets, large datasets and disorganized datasets to pull the key information that you know is important to the niche that you serve, and helps when you're doing outreach, you come off as an expert in what they're doing, you make them aware of something that they may not have realized.

Callan [0:20:07]: And as a result, have a much higher conversion rate on that.

Callan [0:20:12]: And I think probably one of the most important things.

Callan [0:20:14]: It's like, almost that, this stuff isn't new.

Callan [0:20:17]: It's just if you were to be successful at this, you had to have a lot of resources deploy it, and now the playing field is level on that.

Callan [0:20:24]: Is that correct?

Callan [0:20:25]: Or is anything I missed on that?

Lee [0:20:26]: Yeah.

Lee [0:20:26]: That is exactly correct.

Lee [0:20:28]: It does take someone playing around with Ai.

Lee [0:20:30]: And I'm lucky in that I I joined up, and I said, hey, I need a Claude subscription, you know, with an upgraded subscription.

Lee [0:20:38]: They said, no problem.

Lee [0:20:39]: What are you gonna do with it?

Lee [0:20:40]: Okay.

Lee [0:20:40]: Let's go.

Lee [0:20:41]: And so being an organization that is forward thinking like that with guard rails, and then being able to take the initiative on finding the problem, identifying the problem, solving the problem and then implementing it don't go looking for problems to solve.

Lee [0:20:57]: Have a problem and solve it.

Callan [0:20:59]: Yeah.

Callan [0:20:59]: Not a hammer looking for a nail, but Yep.

Callan [0:21:02]: What is gonna be the best problem for my current workflow where we're operating.

Callan [0:21:06]: So I have a question on that then.

Callan [0:21:08]: Is that Are you using coworker to do that automatically or a scheduled task or what does that look like?

Lee [0:21:15]: For this, for my sort of leads list creation using c, you know, I have it as a project, then I can refine it and change things as needed.

Lee [0:21:23]: But once you get a list, you can work it for a while.

Lee [0:21:26]: Right?

Lee [0:21:26]: So it's spit out, you know, five thousand trucking companies that had particular issues with their safety that I knew that when we call, we can bring those up and sound a lot more intelligent than if...

Lee [0:21:36]: If we didn't, do that.

Lee [0:21:38]: Yeah.

Lee [0:21:38]: And it works.

Callan [0:21:40]: How are you using it as part of your outreach process.

Callan [0:21:43]: So you mentioned that you'll have a draft emails, where else are you using it to make that more efficient?

Lee [0:21:50]: I would love.

Lee [0:21:50]: I haven't done it.

Lee [0:21:51]: I've talked to some other Icu members that Have been into Mailer, and I'm like, man, I've tried Mailer and it just never works for me.

Lee [0:21:58]: What, maybe?

Lee [0:21:59]: Maybe I'll be dip back into Mailer again.

Lee [0:22:03]: So, yep.

Lee [0:22:03]: You know, you think about how how can I get in front of an insured?

Lee [0:22:06]: Well, I'm gonna cold call them.

Lee [0:22:07]: I'm gonna...

Lee [0:22:08]: And I don't...

Lee [0:22:08]: I'll cold coal.

Lee [0:22:09]: Right?

Lee [0:22:09]: Like, I think it's very important even for people that maybe in a senior leadership role to get down and do the work, like, do it.

Lee [0:22:18]: So you understand it because if you understand it, then you can figure how to solve it or make it better.

Lee [0:22:23]: Right?

Lee [0:22:23]: So I'll do a policy change.

Lee [0:22:25]: I'll cold call.

Lee [0:22:26]: I'll jump in on a certificate request that's a bit tricky.

Lee [0:22:29]: Whatever.

Lee [0:22:30]: But in marketing, I wanna show up online.

Lee [0:22:33]: So how do I get, you know, higher up in the search engine?

Lee [0:22:35]: Does that even matter now with the, you know, generative searches at the top of every Google search now?

Lee [0:22:42]: Am I showing up there?

Lee [0:22:43]: Yeah.

Lee [0:22:43]: Understanding how to show up there, then it's showing up in their mailbox.

Lee [0:22:48]: Maybe that's a thing again.

Lee [0:22:49]: I don't know, certainly showing up in their email inbox, reaching out.

Lee [0:22:53]: Right?

Lee [0:22:53]: Just calling them, and it's a sequence of those things.

Lee [0:22:56]: It's never...

Lee [0:22:56]: I found any one thing.

Lee [0:22:58]: It's always like a multitude of things.

Lee [0:23:00]: And I wanna stress this.

Lee [0:23:02]: All of those things are done to get more referrals because the number one thing is always referrals.

Lee [0:23:10]: So figuring out how to do how to get referrals, How to do a better job on your customer service, how to drive referrals.

Callan [0:23:19]: You know, that mailing is interesting.

Callan [0:23:21]: So there's this new concept of a loop that's getting a lot...

Callan [0:23:25]: It's got a lot of popularity But so, I'll give you an example.

Callan [0:23:28]: Jack he was talking about.

Callan [0:23:29]: Is gonna get a little out there.

Lee [0:23:31]: But K.

Callan [0:23:32]: Essentially, at block what they're doing is everything's recorded.

Callan [0:23:36]: There's an artifact for everything.

Callan [0:23:38]: Meaning there's a...

Callan [0:23:39]: It creates a document.

Callan [0:23:40]: It knows all the financials, It has all every conversation is recorded and there's a bread crumb trail for everything that's done within block at all.

Callan [0:23:50]: Now I know most people are probably here that.

Callan [0:23:52]: And they're like, that sounds like the epitome of hell.

Callan [0:23:54]: And I...

Callan [0:23:56]: I'm I'm in that boat.

Callan [0:23:57]: For the large part.

Callan [0:23:59]: But to here's where it gets interesting.

Callan [0:24:00]: They're going really far, and I don't know if I fully agree with this.

Callan [0:24:03]: But in saying, like, everybody is essential...

Callan [0:24:06]: They want essentially one layer.

Callan [0:24:07]: One, everybody an individual contributor, And there's no management layer because Ai because it can review and see everything.

Callan [0:24:15]: It knows exactly where resources is being allocated.

Callan [0:24:17]: It knows exactly where the bottlenecks are, and knows exactly what's successful what's not successful.

Callan [0:24:22]: And then based off of that, it makes those essentially decisions to self improve on those things.

Callan [0:24:30]: Okay.

Callan [0:24:30]: I know a lot of people are also hearing that and they're, like, so I'm being managed by Ai that sounds awful.

Callan [0:24:35]: Agreed.

Callan [0:24:35]: But...

Callan [0:24:36]: And and so, like I said, it's gonna be little lot there.

Callan [0:24:37]: Now here's what's interesting why I I hear about the mailing one in particular is interesting to me is that is definitely a process.

Callan [0:24:45]: You can be a risk and you gotta know that you may lose some money doing this, but there's no reason why Ai can't create the copy interact with as a full fully agent.

Callan [0:24:56]: As an agent interacting with whether use a vendor or they use an online, you set it up all of yourself, writes the copy, gets the act...

Callan [0:25:05]: Gets all the stats the reply that, you know, how many were sent?

Callan [0:25:08]: What are the replies?

Callan [0:25:09]: How many leads did we actually get and then makes its own changes itself and self improves and self improves and self improves.

Callan [0:25:18]: That would be a really, really, really interesting.

Callan [0:25:21]: Test case.

Callan [0:25:23]: Is that how you're thinking about it?

Callan [0:25:24]: Or...

Lee [0:25:25]: I'm doing a little bit.

Lee [0:25:26]: The issue becomes, I don't have enough data.

Lee [0:25:29]: Sometimes you make decisions on too smaller data set, and then they're the wrong decisions.

Lee [0:25:34]: So I'm cautious of the I do...

Lee [0:25:38]: Let's go back to your overall grand thought process there.

Callan [0:25:42]: Jack Do is overall grand.

Callan [0:25:44]: Thought process.

Lee [0:25:45]: Yes.

Lee [0:25:45]: Jack Do.

Lee [0:25:46]: I think in matters of importance like insurance, when a claim happens, they want a human on the other side to be responsible.

Lee [0:25:55]: Yeah.

Lee [0:25:56]: And so it's all good.

Lee [0:25:58]: It's easy to buy and they people buy, you know, sort of renters insurance and a lot of lot of, you know, insurance products online.

Lee [0:26:04]: So I don't inc didn't talk to anybody sort click click click audit it.

Lee [0:26:07]: But when it goes bad, and I've had claims, most people, I know that had some kind of claim, auto claim, you know, auto insurance or whatever.

Lee [0:26:14]: When it goes bad, you wanna make sure that you can yell at someone and that they care.

Lee [0:26:19]: So and their reputation matters to them.

Lee [0:26:22]: Right?

Lee [0:26:22]: And those are the...

Lee [0:26:24]: Those are...

Lee [0:26:24]: That's like your leverage once it's once there's a claim.

Lee [0:26:27]: So then you think about, well, you're gonna need the person that's responsible.

Lee [0:26:31]: So I I really do think that humans will be in that relationship.

Lee [0:26:34]: People trust humans.

Lee [0:26:35]: Right?

Lee [0:26:36]: So maybe they'll be fooled by Ai, but I do think we'll we'll keep up that standard with the Ai can't won't, you know, shouldn't legally be able to lie to you tell you it's a human if it's not...

Lee [0:26:46]: But that being said, I do think all of this men work that we do?

Lee [0:26:51]: I call it men because it...

Lee [0:26:53]: I'll I'll go do it.

Lee [0:26:55]: I'll do the work and I'll think why is a human doing this?

Lee [0:26:58]: This doesn't make any sense and you know, Get down to the nitty gritty, and it's like, well, these systems I'll talk to each other or this is the how the client likes the communicator.

Lee [0:27:09]: What if?

Lee [0:27:10]: I think in five years?

Lee [0:27:12]: Maybe less, it'll be kinda like how we used to think yet.

Lee [0:27:17]: Children shu oysters on the shore.

Lee [0:27:20]: That's their job, and they get their hands all cut up.

Lee [0:27:23]: Now we think that's barbaric or children work in minds or something crazy.

Lee [0:27:28]: Right?

Lee [0:27:28]: Like, how we would think of that just doesn't make sense.

Lee [0:27:32]: Why would we ever do that?

Lee [0:27:34]: Yeah.

Lee [0:27:34]: I think we're gonna get to that place where we think, oh, no.

Lee [0:27:37]: I don't want it to take my job too.

Lee [0:27:38]: Thank goodness.

Lee [0:27:39]: We don't have to do that soften anymore.

Lee [0:27:42]: Doesn't make sense.

Lee [0:27:43]: Yeah.

Lee [0:27:43]: There's gonna be plenty of work.

Lee [0:27:45]: I heard a stat.

Lee [0:27:46]: This is pre Ai.

Lee [0:27:47]: There's more sort of programming nuances than we could ever have labor to solve.

Lee [0:27:52]: Meaning like things just don't quite work right.

Lee [0:27:55]: And it's...

Lee [0:27:55]: You see it everywhere all the time and everything you do.

Lee [0:27:58]: There's only some little thing.

Lee [0:27:59]: Little work around, some old problem.

Lee [0:28:01]: Some program it didn't fix and that is an endless supply.

Callan [0:28:07]: Let me ask you this.

Callan [0:28:08]: Where do you not?

Callan [0:28:10]: Where would you...

Callan [0:28:10]: Where will you not?

Callan [0:28:12]: Know you can't predict the future.

Callan [0:28:13]: So I don't wanna, like, let's say right now, where were you not use Ai?

Lee [0:28:19]: I don't really like it in I say this, but I'm actually working on a project right now.

Lee [0:28:25]: To get Ai doing this.

Lee [0:28:27]: But there's a there's a portion of talking to customers, meaning, voice communication when it gets into doing something for them.

Lee [0:28:36]: And I...

Lee [0:28:37]: Even, like, paying a bill or anything like that.

Lee [0:28:40]: Anytime you can have a communication, free up all the other things you do and figure out how to have a good relationship with that client and it doesn't just mean the million dollar client that you go play golf with.

Lee [0:28:53]: How can you free up time more and more and more free times so that the other ninety five percent of your business gets that kind of attention.

Callan [0:29:03]: Yeah.

Lee [0:29:03]: And if you're able to be the the company that's just personable feels locally owned, has that great communication.

Lee [0:29:12]: You've got a person they've got time for you.

Lee [0:29:14]: They can put in the effort.

Lee [0:29:16]: Now we're talking something special.

Callan [0:29:19]: Yeah.

Callan [0:29:19]: Absolutely.

Callan [0:29:20]: So one of the things I'm curious about, right, is it kinda like as a wrap up, you know, you mentioned what you kinda see in five years.

Callan [0:29:28]: But if we're having in this conversation in ten years time.

Callan [0:29:31]: And for you, if everything went one hundred percent to plan, what does that look like?

Lee [0:29:38]: I think it's exactly that.

Lee [0:29:39]: I don't know.

Lee [0:29:40]: I do think a big shift will happen.

Lee [0:29:42]: I really do.

Lee [0:29:43]: And I think that shift is in consumer driven, and the consumer driven shift is if I take off my insurance at, and I wanted to go shop my personal insurance today.

Lee [0:29:55]: It would be so painful because I'd have to talk to multiple agencies to, you know, get a lay of the land.

Lee [0:30:01]: I, you know, I gotta go to state farm and Geico call in Liberty in an independent which travelers and Save, You know, And and then and putting all those pieces together would be very painful.

Lee [0:30:12]: So then you go, hey, Ai.

Lee [0:30:15]: Can you just go handle this for me, please and ask questions that I might not know to ask?

Lee [0:30:20]: Like, does your policy have water backup because these guys do, your typical insured may not know what we what that means.

Lee [0:30:28]: And so I do feel like a shift will come where it is more relationship driven, the final final, like, hit the button and buy it and let's go, and it will be even more important to have trust that sort of core trust in that human, but I do think all of the min mnuchin will be gone.

Lee [0:30:51]: Yeah.

Callan [0:30:53]: I tend to agree in that...

Callan [0:30:54]: Well I agree specifically in a major way that relationships are gonna become exponentially more important because expertise and advice are still going to matter.

Callan [0:31:04]: But all the little details that you didn't wanna deal with?

Callan [0:31:07]: Are gonna be pretty simple.

Callan [0:31:08]: Those are gonna be pretty easy to do.

Callan [0:31:10]: And so at the end of the day, it's like, do I wanna...

Callan [0:31:12]: Do I like who I'm working with?

Callan [0:31:13]: Do I trust who I'm working with?

Callan [0:31:15]: Because I can have my choice?

Callan [0:31:16]: Yep.

Callan [0:31:17]: So I think that's still going to be critical.

Callan [0:31:19]: And I'm not...

Callan [0:31:20]: Yep.

Callan [0:31:21]: You know.

Callan [0:31:21]: Many people is predicted that that's going to become more important.

Callan [0:31:25]: And I think a lot of people are thinking about how you are?

Callan [0:31:27]: Like, how do I free my team up to spend their time on relationships versus getting in the weeds and stuff that's just not gonna be as necessary.

Callan [0:31:36]: It's not fully there yet, but that'll get easier and easier for sure.

Callan [0:31:38]: I agree totally agree with that.

Lee [0:31:40]: Yep.

Lee [0:31:40]: And there goes relationships with under reuters too.

Lee [0:31:43]: Right?

Lee [0:31:43]: It's it's not just external, but internal.

Lee [0:31:45]: Yeah.

Lee [0:31:46]: Relationships with coworkers workers.

Lee [0:31:47]: Right?

Lee [0:31:48]: The relationship piece is important, and we have this barrier now to it, which is this unbelievable amount of work.

Lee [0:31:56]: It's when you think about, you know, we had a driver to...

Lee [0:32:00]: Or a trucking company today, remove a driver and all the steps involved in doing that.

Callan [0:32:05]: Yeah.

Callan [0:32:05]: Hey, End is gonna make the the carriers we'll have to adapt to it.

Callan [0:32:09]: And if they don't, the agencies will follow the path of least resistance.

Callan [0:32:13]: Yep.

Callan [0:32:14]: If all everything else is in place.

Callan [0:32:16]: Right?

Callan [0:32:17]: The coverage just makes sense, all that kind stuff, but like, yep.

Callan [0:32:19]: It's definitely...

Callan [0:32:20]: The path of least resistance are going to be what drives this, I think.

Lee [0:32:26]: Yep.

Lee [0:32:26]: You wanna relate Ai back to music and and wrap it up.

Callan [0:32:31]: But yeah.

Callan [0:32:31]: I would love to do that.

Lee [0:32:33]: Have you seen suno.ai?

Callan [0:32:36]: No.

Callan [0:32:36]: I don't think so.

Lee [0:32:37]: It'll blow your mind.

Lee [0:32:38]: So you can make music?

Lee [0:32:40]: It's scary.

Lee [0:32:41]: It's kinda like when all the artists were mad about Ai making art.

Lee [0:32:46]: Right?

Lee [0:32:47]: Yeah.

Lee [0:32:47]: Now it makes music.

Lee [0:32:48]: And it's been going for a while, but it's getting better and better.

Lee [0:32:51]: And so you can go on sun, You can make a song.

Lee [0:32:55]: You can give it a prompt.

Lee [0:32:56]: And it will make something.

Lee [0:32:58]: It does get back to that the curator.

Lee [0:33:01]: Right?

Lee [0:33:01]: So it'll make a bunch, like, infinite number of songs for you, yeah, really inexpensive.

Lee [0:33:06]: But you have to be the one to kinda pick out the good ones.

Lee [0:33:10]: Yeah.

Lee [0:33:10]: And then as a musician now, it is great giving you an idea.

Lee [0:33:16]: So I'll have...

Lee [0:33:18]: I don't know.

Lee [0:33:18]: A thousand different little concepts of a song, And now you can load that in, and it'll flush out that idea for you and take you in a direction, maybe you weren't thinking.

Lee [0:33:28]: That's pretty cool.

Lee [0:33:29]: So, Ai is changing changing the world in a lot of different ways.

Lee [0:33:33]: I know a lot of skeptics.

Lee [0:33:35]: One of my good friends?

Lee [0:33:37]: He's a skeptic?

Lee [0:33:38]: You know?

Lee [0:33:38]: He's like, what is it really good for?

Lee [0:33:40]: What's?

Lee [0:33:40]: Where is the revenue?

Lee [0:33:41]: Where does it actually do anything?

Lee [0:33:42]: I think those folks have done a lot of, like, email, rewrite type work?

Lee [0:33:47]: Yeah.

Lee [0:33:47]: Yeah.

Lee [0:33:48]: I think you gotta get into the nitty gritty, do the actual work, figure out how to make it.

Lee [0:33:52]: How could it be better and then do it.

Lee [0:33:54]: Like, I don't think certificate requests are much longer gonna be a thing.

Lee [0:33:59]: I really don't.

Lee [0:34:00]: When when when blockchain first came out I was like, oh, Search are gonna...

Lee [0:34:04]: This is solved.

Lee [0:34:05]: Here we go.

Lee [0:34:06]: Yeah.

Lee [0:34:06]: You know, I'm a long later.

Callan [0:34:11]: Well, that's a perfect place to wrap it.

Callan [0:34:13]: I'm gonna check that out, which means I'll probably be equal parts excited and terrified when I see it.

Callan [0:34:18]: Like I am with every new thing that I didn't know until I see it and I'm like, okay.

Callan [0:34:22]: Alright.

Callan [0:34:23]: Well this crazy.

Callan [0:34:23]: Lee, thanks for coming on.

Callan [0:34:25]: I appreciate you going through those examples.

Callan [0:34:27]: Those were super helpful, and I'm excited to have you on in the future to talk about this.

Lee [0:34:32]: Awesome.

Lee [0:34:32]: I love it anybody listening.

Lee [0:34:33]: Please feel free to reach out to me on Linkedin at me, I love having a good network of people and people who listen to your podcast calendar obviously.

Lee [0:34:40]: In this space and intelligent and and know what they're doing.

Lee [0:34:43]: So I'm excited about the opportunity.

Lee [0:34:45]: So thank you for having

Callan [0:34:46]: a hundred percent Absolutely.