How Troy Kemelgor Took a Bottom-Ranked Northwestern Mutual Office From $3.2M to $26.4M in Revenue

Troy [0:00:00]: It's my obligation to make this environment uncomfortable for under achieve.

Troy [0:00:03]: And I looked out there, and I saw a lot of people look at each other, and I'm like, yeah.

Troy [0:00:08]: I'm probably talking to you.

Troy [0:00:10]: It's at the tone from day one that this was gonna have to be a different regime change.

Troy [0:00:15]: This was gonna be a a different philosophy than what they had here before, and there was so much nervous energy.

Troy [0:00:22]: And so we started this organization trying to reset everything.

Troy [0:00:27]: To an agreed upon level of what expectations should look like, and that's a lot of work.

Callan [0:00:35]: Welcome to the Insurance Growth Lab, where we go deep on the growth campaigns and strategies driving real results in the insurance industry.

Callan [0:00:42]: I´m Callan Harrington founder Flashgrowth and in each episode, I sit down with marketing and growth leaders from carriers and shirt tech and top to break down one specific initiative, whether it's how they marketed a product, scale a channel, or solve a specific growth challenge.

Callan [0:01:00]: It's no fluff, just tactical insights you can apply in your own company.

Callan [0:01:04]: Troy this one, like, I've been looking forward two for a while because I was there at the beginning of you taking over this office.

Callan [0:01:18]: I started as producing agent long time ago, and and so to kinda see where it is today versus where it is then, and we'll tell about that whole story what I'm excited to dive into are two different worlds.

Callan [0:01:32]: Yeah.

Callan [0:01:33]: And so where I wanted to start this is tell me about that first meeting that you had when you took over the office.

Troy [0:01:42]: So, I mean, it's funny in hindsight, it was horrible at the time.

Troy [0:01:45]: If you think about right started.

Troy [0:01:47]: You think about walking into an unknown.

Troy [0:01:51]: Right?

Troy [0:01:51]: And I knew this organization organizational on paper.

Troy [0:01:54]: And I looked in on paper, and I had turned down coming to Columbus because it was out of eighty two offices so like number seventy eight out of eighty two.

Callan [0:02:03]: I figured it was probably pretty low.

Troy [0:02:05]: His best broken is could be.

Troy [0:02:06]: And so my ego told me no not to take it.

Troy [0:02:10]: Living in Columbus is what ultimately led me here.

Troy [0:02:13]: I wanted to live here.

Troy [0:02:14]: I wanted live here the Midwest.

Troy [0:02:15]: And so I come in January of two thousand eight, and I don't know anybody.

Troy [0:02:21]: And I'm having my first ever state in the network office meeting.

Troy [0:02:25]: I remember, I was...

Troy [0:02:26]: Worked so hard on what I was gonna say and how I wanna address people, and you're looking out into the crowd of a hundred and hundred and fifty people and they're all strangers.

Callan [0:02:34]: Yep.

Callan [0:02:34]: And I remember one of

Troy [0:02:36]: the lines I shared at that time, Ke I said, it is my obligation that think a pretty strong word.

Troy [0:02:42]: I just it's my obligation to make this environment uncomfortable for under achieve.

Troy [0:02:46]: Mh.

Troy [0:02:47]: And I looked out there, and I saw a lot of people look at each other, and I'm like, yeah.

Troy [0:02:53]: I'm probably talking to you.

Troy [0:02:54]: They didn't know what that meant.

Troy [0:02:58]: Probably talking to you.

Troy [0:03:00]: And it's at the tone from day one that this was gonna have to be a different regime change.

Troy [0:03:07]: This was gonna be a a different philosophy than what they had here before, and there was so much nervous energy.

Troy [0:03:13]: And so we started this organization trying to reset everything to an agreed upon level of what expectations should look like and that has a lot of work.

Callan [0:03:25]: I remember what's it's so funny.

Callan [0:03:27]: You know, we we're talking about this beforehand.

Callan [0:03:28]: And when I was doing all the research on this, and I looked and I was, wait a minute.

Callan [0:03:34]: I would have started there as an intern that summer that you took over.

Callan [0:03:39]: And the funny thing is you can clearly see who was going to kinda lead that next charge, and who likely wasn't?

Callan [0:03:50]: Not the sales weren't good.

Callan [0:03:51]: People.

Callan [0:03:51]: It's just...

Callan [0:03:52]: It was clear that what you wanted to build was not in there.

Callan [0:03:57]: And it's so funny.

Callan [0:03:57]: It makes so much more sense now because That was coming five months after.

Troy [0:04:01]: Right.

Troy [0:04:01]: We really stripped it down to studs.

Troy [0:04:03]: And I made the decision and and had the opportunity to travel around the country and look at low other successful organizations.

Troy [0:04:09]: And and I didn't know that could I come in with a, like, a surgical knife and just make some changes or if I have to come with a sled chain district strip it all down to its studs.

Troy [0:04:18]: And this was one that there was really nothing that looked at culturally, system wise, process people that was something I wanted to build upon.

Troy [0:04:28]: So I stripped it down to so it studs and said, let's just start building this thing from ground up and go from there from the day one.

Callan [0:04:33]: Which is pretty uncommon for taking over an office like this within an organization like Northwestern Mutual.

Callan [0:04:39]: Right Fair to say?

Troy [0:04:40]: Very, very uncommon.

Troy [0:04:41]: Yeah.

Troy [0:04:41]: In fact, home office didn't even have a lot of support systems for.

Troy [0:04:44]: When I came in there they're, like, you don't have a dino.

Troy [0:04:47]: So you don't have recruiters.

Troy [0:04:48]: You don't have operations officer.

Troy [0:04:49]: You don't have you don't have any infrastructure.

Troy [0:04:52]: And I said, I'm gonna have to build it Have to bid off scratch, which is a double edged sword.

Troy [0:04:57]: Right?

Troy [0:04:57]: You don't have something that you can hang your hat on and shows an example of people.

Troy [0:05:02]: At same point in time, I got to pick my people.

Troy [0:05:04]: Yeah.

Troy [0:05:05]: I got to interview and bring in my people, and I've just been fortunate enough that some of the...

Troy [0:05:09]: Those original people Brought the organization are still with me.

Troy [0:05:11]: That's for almost nineteen years.

Callan [0:05:14]: Well, it's wild story, and then, you know, looking at some of the numbers, you've three x premium, nine x G, and Ad x revenue, taking revenue from three point two million to twenty six point four million.

Callan [0:05:25]: So pretty significant turnaround on that.

Callan [0:05:29]: So one of the things that I wanted to kinda kick off this whole development story is, in the fall of two thousand eight, not again, not that long after you took over, the financial crisis hit.

Callan [0:05:41]: Take us back to that time.

Callan [0:05:43]: What were you experiencing at that time.

Troy [0:05:47]: Yeah.

Troy [0:05:47]: That, you know, timing supposed to be everything.

Troy [0:05:49]: And timing can also be great stress on you.

Troy [0:05:53]: And when you watch and you're taking over an organization, and it's very interesting, emotional feeling as an owner that they open up checking account.

Troy [0:06:02]: Yeah.

Troy [0:06:02]: I walked seven figures hit my check account.

Troy [0:06:05]: Yep.

Troy [0:06:05]: I watch seven figures go out the next day.

Troy [0:06:07]: And I was like what just happened.

Troy [0:06:08]: You're like, well, you're seven figures in debt.

Troy [0:06:10]: Right?

Troy [0:06:11]: That you had to buy out everything.

Troy [0:06:13]: And so you're starting off seven figures in debt.

Troy [0:06:15]: Then you watch a macroeconomic economics and you're watching, your investment book decrease.

Troy [0:06:21]: You're watching people panic, and they're looking at you to lead them through this situation that they've never experienced and to be honest, besides a couple hiccups along the way earlier in my career, I had never experienced anything like this as well.

Troy [0:06:35]: So a lot of this was rallying to what the root of what we do, which is still...

Troy [0:06:40]: This is still about helping people, and we just may have to help people differently.

Troy [0:06:44]: We may not be able to rely much on the assets and helping people the retirement.

Troy [0:06:50]: We just gotta help them from the fear of security of knowing what's gonna happen next.

Troy [0:06:54]: So those rallying the wagon around.

Troy [0:06:56]: It was going out and helping these people understand that even with the macroeconomic economics crumbling around us.

Troy [0:07:02]: I mean, two thousand eight, we had our best year ever in history of that organization once been around since ever eighteen eighty six.

Troy [0:07:08]: Yeah.

Troy [0:07:09]: And we had our number one production year.

Troy [0:07:11]: Well, how do you do that?

Troy [0:07:12]: Getting some people backed to own focusing on helping people.

Troy [0:07:15]: What does helping people look like?

Troy [0:07:17]: This is still an activity driven industry in business.

Troy [0:07:21]: It's a ton of people who are looking for help and we just had to be there.

Callan [0:07:24]: You you mentioned it's an activity driven business.

Callan [0:07:27]: What does that mean?

Callan [0:07:28]: And what did you need to do to drive that activity?

Troy [0:07:33]: Yeah.

Troy [0:07:33]: It's a great question because it it changed philosophically what people thought success look like.

Troy [0:07:38]: And where...

Troy [0:07:39]: None of us are good enough to pick a client out and pick a point in that client's life that were the right answer for him forever.

Troy [0:07:47]: I...

Troy [0:07:48]: I've been doing this a long time.

Troy [0:07:49]: I'm not that good.

Troy [0:07:50]: I am good enough to know that if I go and have twelve fifteen conversations with various different people, I can put myself in their life at the right time when they need my help.

Troy [0:08:02]: And the only way to be there when they need you is to make sure that you're meeting enough people.

Troy [0:08:07]: And so we talked about that this is still in business that relies on you being able to be at the right place at the right time for people in their lives.

Troy [0:08:17]: And the only way you're gonna do that is by having run a high activity practice.

Troy [0:08:20]: We've been able to pick up the phone, be able to meet with people, be able to get referred to other great people in there, and we know statistically what's gonna happen.

Troy [0:08:29]: It's just getting people buy in before it happens.

Callan [0:08:33]: Okay.

Callan [0:08:33]: You're looking at this team.

Callan [0:08:34]: You're setting the stage that I'm gonna make it uncomfortable for the people that don't want it really drive to get this?

Callan [0:08:42]: What changes did you make?

Callan [0:08:44]: What were some of those early bets that you made?

Callan [0:08:46]: I'm curious, what were the ones that worked?

Callan [0:08:48]: What were the ones that didn't work?

Callan [0:08:49]: What did you lean into that other managing partners probably did not.

Troy [0:08:54]: I believe just in this the philosophy and go to Jack Welch Ge and understanding that, hey, if you can bring in great people, you can raise a level of expectations.

Troy [0:09:03]: And so the first thing I did is I cut off all side deals, this organization's culture had tons of side deals that were going on?

Callan [0:09:10]: What's that mean?

Troy [0:09:10]: They'd come to you gallons.

Troy [0:09:11]: Like, hey, I'm a pretty good producer.

Troy [0:09:13]: Why don't you do this for me that you're not doing for the rest organization.

Troy [0:09:16]: Why don't you do this for me that it this would really help me out.

Troy [0:09:19]: And so I found out that all these advisers had one off deals with the former managing partner.

Troy [0:09:26]: I was like, we're not doing that at all.

Troy [0:09:28]: How do

Callan [0:09:28]: you clean that?

Callan [0:09:29]: And what, did you lose people in that breast?

Troy [0:09:31]: I did.

Troy [0:09:31]: I did.

Troy [0:09:31]: And that was part of, you know, be okay to purge people that were not right fit for the culture.

Troy [0:09:37]: I just said, you know, leap fitness this environment uncomfortable for achieve means that we got raise a bar high enough to what success looks like.

Troy [0:09:44]: And I just had this belief that successful people wanna be around other successful people.

Callan [0:09:49]: Mh.

Troy [0:09:49]: So we went through this really tough stage over the first two three four years.

Troy [0:09:53]: Where we are constantly bringing new people organization, but we weren't growing from a horizontal standpoint it's because I had to get rid of so many people that were there in the organization.

Troy [0:10:02]: Yeah.

Troy [0:10:03]: I mean, if you look at it now, there's probably about ninety percent of the people organization people I brought in.

Troy [0:10:09]: There just isn't the legacy individuals that are left out there.

Troy [0:10:13]: So early on, I mean, I made a couple mistakes too big as I I went to where I thought we should be versus really recognizing where we are.

Callan [0:10:22]: What's that?

Callan [0:10:22]: Could you dive in into?

Troy [0:10:23]: So...

Troy [0:10:23]: Yeah.

Troy [0:10:23]: It was announcing.

Troy [0:10:24]: I looked at it, and I understood.

Troy [0:10:27]: I was excited about directional where we need to go.

Troy [0:10:30]: I was around some great organizations across the country in the first half of my career.

Troy [0:10:34]: And so I tried to lay the foundation of what we were building to.

Callan [0:10:39]: You wanted to skip right to the best.

Troy [0:10:41]: I I wanna go to best.

Troy [0:10:42]: I wanna go to the expectations how we showed up where we went, and I really didn't understand We were like six iterations away.

Callan [0:10:51]: So I think about this.

Callan [0:10:52]: And because, you know, I've I personally have I've read as many of the business biographies as if I can, and I think about that, and I'm like, okay.

Callan [0:10:59]: No.

Callan [0:11:00]: This is what we gotta do.

Callan [0:11:00]: And that's really hard to execute.

Callan [0:11:02]: I'm curious in your situation.

Callan [0:11:05]: What we're...

Callan [0:11:05]: Do you have an example of some of those things you were trying to do and it's just like, we can't do this yet.

Troy [0:11:09]: Yeah.

Troy [0:11:09]: You know, the...

Troy [0:11:10]: What success was going to look like.

Troy [0:11:12]: I needed to really do a better job recognizing where we are and what success look like in that organization.

Troy [0:11:19]: Now what success looked like in my mind.

Troy [0:11:21]: And so I set some bars that were way too high for our leaders I set some bars that were way too high and unrealistic for a growth rate percentage.

Troy [0:11:29]: I set some bars that are way too high for a lot of my key staff people.

Troy [0:11:34]: And it wasn't that they've not the right bars at a wrong time.

Troy [0:11:37]: We had to have a lot of victories along the way to get to point where that was.

Callan [0:11:42]: You didn't have the momentum to be able to make the quantum leap

Troy [0:11:45]: besides Yeah.

Troy [0:11:45]: I didn't recognize how far off we really were.

Callan [0:11:48]: One of the things I'm kinda curious about is I know this feeling.

Callan [0:11:51]: When you set the goal away too high, in my experience two things happen.

Callan [0:11:54]: First, if it's so far out of reach, people usually, like, I there's no point and even really working that much harder because I know we have

Troy [0:12:03]: never gonna hit it.

Troy [0:12:04]: I and I had a lot of that.

Troy [0:12:05]: Yes.

Callan [0:12:06]: And then number two is they can lose trust in your ability to set...

Callan [0:12:11]: If this is the goal, well, then I probably do need...

Callan [0:12:13]: Even if I'm good, I probably need to leave because there's no way that's gonna happen.

Callan [0:12:17]: Were you seeing that?

Troy [0:12:19]: I did.

Troy [0:12:19]: I think on both circumstances.

Troy [0:12:20]: And here's a great thing is if you can adopt humility, and you can adopt humility as a leader.

Troy [0:12:26]: You can go back say I was wrong.

Troy [0:12:27]: And I had to do that to the organization.

Troy [0:12:30]: I had to come back and say, look, I was wrong.

Troy [0:12:32]: This isn't wrong where we're going.

Troy [0:12:34]: It's wrong to expect us to get there at this point in time.

Troy [0:12:37]: And this was my fault, and I had owned that.

Troy [0:12:39]: And so part of that was going back and really reassess what would victory look like?

Troy [0:12:45]: What does success.

Troy [0:12:46]: What does growth look like based on where we are, not based on where I want us to go and let's paint a better vision and picture to that, and let's go attain that first.

Callan [0:12:56]: You mentioned that that took kind humility One thing there should be stated To this point, you were pretty much a rising star.

Callan [0:13:04]: You were the youngest managing partner in Northwestern mutual history.

Callan [0:13:07]: You had done some time in in the home office.

Callan [0:13:10]: You had...

Callan [0:13:11]: As like you had said, you had saw a lot of the top offices.

Callan [0:13:13]: What was it that like when you set these really big goals and didn't hit him.

Callan [0:13:18]: What was that like personally?

Troy [0:13:20]: Well, now that I'm older.

Troy [0:13:22]: I could tell you was a great life lesson.

Troy [0:13:26]: I can tell you in the moment, it was really tough calendar.

Troy [0:13:28]: It was it's one of those things where you question, am I not as good as leaders I thought I was.

Troy [0:13:34]: Why can't I get the people to buy in and grow this.

Troy [0:13:37]: Why can't we go there now?

Troy [0:13:38]: And I think it's a great question to ask, hey, if if you had unlimited resources and half the time to achieve it, what would you do differently in decision making to get there?

Troy [0:13:48]: And that's a tough question to answer.

Troy [0:13:50]: And a lot of times, if you're the one that sees and believes in and put the rest of your team doesn't?

Troy [0:13:57]: You're race out there by yourself.

Troy [0:13:59]: And I felt myself right out there by myself, and I was getting frustrated and angry and then questioned that I had the wrong people.

Troy [0:14:07]: And really, it was just the wrong leadership at the time was what the organization needed.

Troy [0:14:12]: And so that that big pill of humility that ego hit, you know, fortunately, I was in some great study groups and some some people around me that can call me out and recognize my blind spots.

Troy [0:14:23]: To have me step back and appreciate that energy vision direction and speed is not wrong, mis assessing, your current situation is where I missed.

Callan [0:14:34]: So I I think that's critical.

Callan [0:14:36]: Mean because it is...

Callan [0:14:37]: It's it's so easy.

Callan [0:14:38]: But if you're a really competitive person and to say, like, exactly what you just said.

Callan [0:14:42]: And so one of the things I'm curious about.

Callan [0:14:44]: I've heard you talk about this before of the right leader for the time, and I've seen this over and over again with...

Callan [0:14:50]: And especially in the startup up world about, you know, stage fit at the different stages of a business.

Callan [0:14:55]: At that time, when you're turning this around and you set these really high goals didn't hit, what adjustments did you make from that.

Callan [0:15:06]: What were the things you came out of this?

Callan [0:15:07]: And then You know, was that rights sizing the goals, did you make any changes in people?

Callan [0:15:14]: And then from a leadership perspective, what did that look like?

Troy [0:15:16]: Yeah.

Troy [0:15:16]: That's it's very interesting because I showed up as the CEO for an organization that needed a field leader.

Troy [0:15:23]: And I was trying to lead from a CEO's mindset in the organization, need need to be in the trenches.

Troy [0:15:29]: And I remember going to a study group meeting and and with some friends from around the country and there they said, Well, Troy, your organization needs you to do this this and this.

Troy [0:15:39]: I remember saying...

Troy [0:15:41]: I didn't signed up to be a fucking field director.

Troy [0:15:43]: I was like that's not what I signed up for.

Callan [0:15:48]: Yeah.

Troy [0:15:49]: And they said, I don't care what you think you signed up for.

Troy [0:15:52]: This is what your organization needs.

Troy [0:15:54]: And that really is a gut punch.

Troy [0:15:57]: It's where you come in you're excited about it because I had to look and say, well, I don't have the people around me to do the things that are needed to be done the organization.

Troy [0:16:05]: And if you're small growing, that falls on your shoulders.

Troy [0:16:09]: So I had to show up and do different sales and lead trainings and being their case consultation and do hiring and talk about Pto and help build compliance department.

Troy [0:16:23]: All the stuff that I was like, this should already been done.

Troy [0:16:26]: I'm was supposed to come in and help build an organization take it up, but I had to go in there and be from department department head to head to lead it build it and find the right people.

Troy [0:16:36]: And if I could find the right people, teach them then I can move on to things that were in my vision and my scope of what I thought the organization needed.

Troy [0:16:45]: So, no.

Troy [0:16:45]: You talk about it It looks like, I had to change as a leader multiple times.

Troy [0:16:49]: I had to show up differently in the first to about first five years.

Troy [0:16:54]: Who I was and what was me by the organization looking very, very different than the next five years.

Troy [0:16:59]: In the next five years where I brought in someone from Milwaukee and started helping run some horizontal growth.

Troy [0:17:06]: I'd build up my infrastructure team and most of those people are are still with me.

Troy [0:17:10]: In that second five year growth, we really start having some rapid rapid growth.

Troy [0:17:14]: And then that creates all kinds of different issues when you're starting to build with scale and size.

Troy [0:17:19]: And so probably that third five years, you know, I had just show up very differently than I did into the last one.

Troy [0:17:27]: And I think that's part of where, like, lot of leaders miss it they have to change.

Troy [0:17:32]: Which works successful for a while doesn't work successful forever.

Troy [0:17:36]: And you gotta realize when you need to change and how you need to show up differently and what you did to get you there, is it's not necessary what's gonna keep you going to, you where you ultimately wanna grow the organization to.

Callan [0:17:47]: So so if I'm playing it back when I'm hearing and you say is when you got there, you wanted throw fuel on the fire You realized that you needed to buy the...

Callan [0:17:54]: You needed to build a fire pit.

Callan [0:17:56]: And so you took a lot of humility, but went back and then started building all of these things, doing the job that you didn't.

Callan [0:18:05]: Want.

Callan [0:18:05]: And what I'm hearing is that's what got you out of those first five years.

Callan [0:18:09]: Yeah.

Callan [0:18:09]: Get got you out of the wrong way to say it, but that's what...

Callan [0:18:12]: Because you were growing during this time.

Callan [0:18:14]: What was that point within the first five years we were, like, Oh, okay.

Callan [0:18:19]: This is working.

Callan [0:18:19]: Like, now I'm seeing it.

Troy [0:18:21]: Yeah.

Troy [0:18:21]: I think there is...

Troy [0:18:22]: There are those little victories.

Troy [0:18:23]: There is a little victories when you're able to attract a pretty talented person to your team.

Troy [0:18:29]: There are little victories where...

Troy [0:18:30]: You know, as you look back and we had record year, record year, record year, record year.

Troy [0:18:36]: And that was when the market's going down and when the marker was coming up, and I looked back and you sit and say, hey, we just had five all time records in a row.

Troy [0:18:42]: And I start looking around it's like, I've got a really strong department over here in the compliance world.

Troy [0:18:48]: That's really handled.

Troy [0:18:49]: Well, I've got a really good development training and a partner there to help run of our train development.

Troy [0:18:54]: That feels really good.

Troy [0:18:55]: I've got a really good now leadership.

Troy [0:18:57]: Pipeline that we're starting to build.

Troy [0:18:59]: And so you start to look at some of these things where you're in the trenches all the time, and I think when you're that close to it, you're just running hard and scared.

Troy [0:19:07]: You start to step back and a saw Victories, these little victories are going along the way which helped me continue to rep repent what the vision is and then now it's like now can you grow faster?

Troy [0:19:19]: Now you have the right people.

Troy [0:19:21]: Now can you do what you thought you wanna do five years ago.

Troy [0:19:24]: But you weren't in position to do that.

Troy [0:19:26]: And and so that was the the the little points along the way that helped me recognize that I could show up differently.

Troy [0:19:34]: I could lead differently.

Troy [0:19:37]: I could vision differently.

Troy [0:19:38]: Because I now have the right people to help execute and know who are bought in to the direction we're going, and now we have a history of success.

Troy [0:19:46]: Here, this office had no history of success for a hundred plus years no history of success.

Callan [0:19:52]: Did they didn't believe it.

Callan [0:19:52]: I have told you the story million times when I first came in, it's funny because that's...

Callan [0:19:56]: You wanted to go to this, like, we're gonna get you hitting all these numbers and everything else and myself and and Brand a Mac tire were like, alright.

Callan [0:20:04]: Let's do it.

Callan [0:20:05]: And then you're like, we wanna...

Callan [0:20:06]: It's like, you know, driving the nice cars.

Callan [0:20:08]: I remember going to the parking lot going.

Callan [0:20:09]: I don't see any how

Troy [0:20:11]: the car there was.

Troy [0:20:12]: No.

Troy [0:20:13]: There was no nice car.

Troy [0:20:15]: Else it's nice to anything.

Troy [0:20:16]: Yeah.

Troy [0:20:16]: No.

Callan [0:20:18]: Then you said, wait do we go to annual meeting?

Callan [0:20:20]: And then you can see.

Callan [0:20:21]: And then we did.

Callan [0:20:21]: And then there was for ferraris reason and bentley.

Callan [0:20:23]: And all the things that you could think of that my twenty two year old mine was like, that's what I want.

Callan [0:20:27]: And so one of the things that you said in there.

Callan [0:20:30]: I I'm curious about is you said, you're starting to figure it out and you're running and you're scared.

Callan [0:20:36]: That scared part is that that you...

Callan [0:20:39]: That it's starting to work.

Callan [0:20:40]: Like, I don't want this to stop working.

Callan [0:20:43]: And, okay.

Callan [0:20:44]: Now I finally, I took on this debt to get this.

Callan [0:20:46]: I pulled with...

Callan [0:20:47]: The financial crisis hit.

Callan [0:20:49]: I'm starting to come out of this?

Callan [0:20:51]: What I'm curious in this is...

Callan [0:20:52]: Is it almost kinda like you're afraid?

Callan [0:20:54]: Do I put money into this?

Callan [0:20:56]: I just got this thing finally going?

Callan [0:20:58]: Do I put money into this?

Callan [0:20:59]: Do I let it continue to grow?

Callan [0:21:01]: Like, what's going on?

Callan [0:21:02]: Where does that come from?

Troy [0:21:03]: Yeah.

Troy [0:21:03]: There's a a lot of financial decisions that are going on there where some of your biggest expenses are in the real estate that you're hal in and the people that you employ.

Troy [0:21:13]: And if you want nice shiny things, you better have nice shiny people in places.

Troy [0:21:19]: And so so you remember where we started, it was neither.

Troy [0:21:23]: Right?

Troy [0:21:24]: There was nothing nice and shiny there over on Spring Street.

Troy [0:21:26]: I spent my first, you know, five six seven years just trying to get out of that lease trying to get out of the the feeling of a small town player in barely doing financial planning.

Troy [0:21:39]: And I said, look, we're going to be the largest the most Cf p's, the most credential financial service organization of Central Ohio.

Troy [0:21:46]: But, we gotta look at and feel it and I gotta bring in eight players.

Troy [0:21:50]: And so as you start feeling like you're getting a little traction.

Troy [0:21:53]: Now it's time that they're asking you in your mind, your s saying we'll double down.

Troy [0:21:57]: When when do I pull some chips off the table?

Callan [0:22:02]: That's a great question.

Callan [0:22:03]: How did you manage that?

Callan [0:22:04]: How did you decide...

Callan [0:22:05]: What of the things that I've personally struggled with is how much do I pay myself versus reinvest?

Callan [0:22:10]: How are you thinking about that at that time?

Troy [0:22:13]: Well, you know, fortunately, I've got a very analytical mine and I under in just how to maximize our contrast the best way we can.

Troy [0:22:20]: And and so I've got a little bit of a CFO mindset anyways.

Troy [0:22:23]: And during that time, if you sit there and look at that second five year segment, that was one where there were certain things that I could change Start certain things I couldn't being you're in a lease or still a lease, you can set up and and pay and then I started to say, hey, am I okay?

Troy [0:22:42]: Am I okay at a standard of living right now and can hold that steady for next two three, four years.

Troy [0:22:48]: Am I okay with that?

Troy [0:22:49]: That's a sell at home too.

Troy [0:22:51]: Right?

Troy [0:22:51]: So you gotta go home and say, hey.

Troy [0:22:52]: Don't look at the...

Troy [0:22:54]: Our peers of our friends else to country and don't compare ourselves to them.

Troy [0:22:57]: Here's what we're gonna do.

Troy [0:22:59]: We're gonna hold it.

Troy [0:22:59]: We're gonna double down in the throw there everything back in the office because we're gonna move into nice new space.

Troy [0:23:04]: It's gonna take on all this new debt and all these new loans.

Troy [0:23:07]: I had things paid down.

Troy [0:23:08]: I'm gonna add another seven plus figures, and furniture leases and loans and hard, we're gonna be okay, but we're gonna move like this in lifestyle.

Troy [0:23:18]: You're gonna do chunks, not this this continuous increase Yeah.

Troy [0:23:21]: And that ability to sell that vision?

Troy [0:23:25]: To my wife and to sell that a vision of we're fine, let's make sure we're doubling down when the opportunity if we've got the right people.

Troy [0:23:33]: And then being able to also just put yourself in a position as a business owner to take advantage when those...

Troy [0:23:39]: When that arises.

Troy [0:23:40]: And I don't think enough business owners do that.

Troy [0:23:42]: They live very thin margins and opportunity show up, and they don't have access to capital, they don't have access to leverage.

Troy [0:23:50]: Now, we had to get out of lease and we were first movers to start all the yard street.

Troy [0:23:54]: We were the anchor tenant in Yard street.

Troy [0:23:56]: You know, people don't remember that that was warehouse and Instagram.

Troy [0:23:59]: Well, we had to be positioned to be there.

Troy [0:24:01]: Well, then we out brew our space there three times in less than our lease And you're growing at that rate where you're taking down new space, and then you gotta take down new space, and you're growing in your six, seven years and a ten year lease, and you're like, there's no way we can last year.

Troy [0:24:17]: We gotta get out this one early we.

Troy [0:24:19]: And go to new space.

Troy [0:24:20]: All these things just...

Troy [0:24:22]: You're looking at your own financial thing and you're saying, hey, how do we reconcile internally what I feel is a good dinner living and still building for the business.

Troy [0:24:32]: And that's...

Troy [0:24:33]: That's a tough one at times in there.

Troy [0:24:35]: But if you're excited and you run enough analysis about where you're going, then it's alright to have some delayed gratification.

Troy [0:24:43]: And I think I've always been okay with delayed gratification.

Troy [0:24:46]: And that's helped me build to sit and say, no, we're fine.

Troy [0:24:49]: We're gonna hold our stuff steady.

Troy [0:24:51]: Personally, I'm gonna build up the war chest.

Troy [0:24:54]: Here's why I know what this cash is gonna be needed out there.

Troy [0:24:57]: I know the expenses of being being able to move and go from We had thirteen thousand square feet when it started to, like, forty one thousand now that we have.

Troy [0:25:06]: On a class space.

Troy [0:25:07]: We were thirteen thousand of probably b b minus space to forty one thousand of a class space.

Troy [0:25:12]: That takes dollars to.

Callan [0:25:15]: Is that important to you?

Callan [0:25:15]: The office specific.

Troy [0:25:17]: You know, I think it is one of the things that it attracts high quality caliber people.

Troy [0:25:21]: They wanna bring in clients.

Troy [0:25:23]: They wanna feel really good about the amenities.

Troy [0:25:24]: They won't feel really good about their operating space.

Troy [0:25:27]: I got some high income staff people, I want them be excited and proud about the space in which they can work in.

Troy [0:25:36]: And a lot of times when we built this, I built it by pulling out what they want their opinions.

Troy [0:25:41]: What would be nice.

Troy [0:25:42]: And been able to balance that with what is necessary.

Troy [0:25:46]: And you're working this puzzle always together between not over extending yourself, but building something that you know you're gonna be in for at least ten years.

Troy [0:25:54]: You won't do it right.

Troy [0:25:56]: And I wanted do it right.

Troy [0:25:58]: I wanted them to be excited about it.

Troy [0:26:00]: I wanted them to be proud to bring their spouses and their kids and their clients into that space.

Troy [0:26:05]: I wanted it to be one where attracted people to be in there and have the energy in around the hallways.

Callan [0:26:12]: You know, what are the things that I'm...

Callan [0:26:13]: I wanna dive into that you you talked about is when you say access to capital, I'm curious because with this structure, you can't really take Pe or anything.

Callan [0:26:22]: And so What I'm hearing is that you've got a pretty good risk tolerance for taking because my guess Your new personally are the one taking look.

Troy [0:26:32]: It's my name on the loan.

Troy [0:26:33]: Yes.

Callan [0:26:34]: And so you've got the personal guarantee, when you say access to capital is at lines of credit is that cash reserves is that deal all the above?

Callan [0:26:41]: How do you think about that?

Troy [0:26:42]: Yeah.

Troy [0:26:42]: I think it's it's all the above.

Troy [0:26:43]: So I look at cash flow.

Troy [0:26:45]: I look at a lot of forecasting.

Troy [0:26:47]: If you're gonna go and you're gonna pull seven figures worth of furniture loans.

Troy [0:26:52]: Which is paid back over seven years.

Troy [0:26:54]: Okay.

Troy [0:26:55]: What is that cash flow gonna look like?

Troy [0:26:56]: What does that mean?

Troy [0:26:57]: And you get lease hold loans, and then you got, you know, signage and building...

Troy [0:27:01]: And you're starting to put this whole thing together and you gotta look at Can I get access to this, can I do it right way?

Troy [0:27:08]: And what does it mean from a cash flow moving forward?

Troy [0:27:10]: And if you're doing with the cash flow cup, you got a couple things levers that you move, you can't move?

Troy [0:27:14]: Once I sign that lease?

Troy [0:27:15]: I'm, I'm in that lease.

Troy [0:27:16]: Once I take these loans, those are fixed payback loans on how you're doing that?

Troy [0:27:21]: And if I wire great individuals who are compensated very, very well?

Troy [0:27:26]: That's your big third one.

Troy [0:27:28]: So what are you building in some of your fixed ones and what does that mean from planning now that where's your variance?

Troy [0:27:34]: And are you okay with that?

Troy [0:27:36]: And I was okay with understand what that was gonna be.

Troy [0:27:39]: Was okay because knowing that I just believed that we're gonna keep growing, and that's not a short thing by any stretch imagination, but part of this was our belief that growth is ongoing.

Troy [0:27:50]: It's not a destination.

Troy [0:27:51]: We don't get there.

Troy [0:27:52]: We keep growing.

Troy [0:27:54]: And if I'm okay being, let's say tight in the first three years because of all this higher debt that frees it up in years four or through ten, I can plan on that.

Troy [0:28:04]: And then I can plan emotionally on then I can also plan just my personal livelihood around...

Troy [0:28:08]: It's gonna be tight at this stretch, and then it's gonna open up again.

Troy [0:28:12]: And then there's probably points gonna get tight again.

Troy [0:28:13]: It's all relative.

Troy [0:28:15]: Tight is relative.

Troy [0:28:15]: Right?

Troy [0:28:16]: My tight now was very different than my tight when I was two thousand eight two thousand nine, two thousand.

Callan [0:28:21]: Well, I'm curious about that though, because you are right, it's completely relative that what looked tight probably could didn't even feel as tight.

Callan [0:28:28]: Maybe at that point of Did.

Callan [0:28:30]: But right now, Tight could mean you're just taking out much significantly larger numbers to fuel significantly larger growth.

Callan [0:28:36]: Is this the way that you still leverage it?

Callan [0:28:38]: Do you still leverage debt in that capacity, meaning like, you've already proven that things worked?

Callan [0:28:44]: You don't have to grow...

Callan [0:28:45]: Like, realistically, you don't, but you guys have doubled over the past five years and this year is on track to be the biggest growth year yet.

Troy [0:28:52]: Yeah.

Callan [0:28:52]: So you're clearly still doing it.

Callan [0:28:54]: Is that what the process looks like?

Troy [0:28:56]: Yeah.

Troy [0:28:56]: I think there's a problem so most business owners get into that we get addicted to growth.

Troy [0:28:59]: And yeah.

Troy [0:29:03]: There's a lot of addictions out there.

Troy [0:29:04]: That's a real.

Troy [0:29:05]: That's an addiction.

Callan [0:29:07]: Sure Of course.

Troy [0:29:07]: It's an addiction.

Troy [0:29:07]: And I am addicted to writing whenever I pass a baton on to somebody else.

Troy [0:29:16]: There's not a magic in number, it is that that we grew and we grew constantly.

Troy [0:29:22]: And for me, one of the things, you know, I'm I'm most proud of is just It can we say every year and this been a mantra, we start taking on in year one and two is every year should be our best year ever.

Troy [0:29:32]: Whether it's by one percent or a hundred percent.

Troy [0:29:35]: It doesn't matter.

Troy [0:29:36]: The growth rate is just wasn't your best year ever.

Troy [0:29:39]: That's growth.

Troy [0:29:40]: And so what I'm addicted to is growing for growth sake, not for some kind of financial difference on the back end at this point in time.

Callan [0:29:50]: So one of the things that's unique about this business is You know, I started, Northwestern Mutual was very insurance heavy, meaning that most of the production was incentivized towards insurance.

Callan [0:30:02]: They grew to be more holistic and added much more of the investment side.

Callan [0:30:06]: Those oftentimes are complimentary, but not always, you know, when we look at the numbers.

Callan [0:30:12]: Right?

Callan [0:30:13]: So just going back you three x premium and you nine x G.

Callan [0:30:16]: So G on the investment side.

Callan [0:30:18]: One grew significantly more than the other, why did that grow at that pace?

Callan [0:30:24]: Why did that out paste premium by so much?

Callan [0:30:26]: One?

Callan [0:30:27]: And then two, how do you strike that balance?

Troy [0:30:31]: You know, what's interesting is because they're not equal and they're never going to be equal and they're not meant to be equal.

Troy [0:30:35]: You know, we had been around long enough now that Mckinsey came in and did a great consulting thing years and years ago and said, if you wanna optimize your growth rate on the risk side, it's two to four percent.

Callan [0:30:48]: Two to four percent meter

Troy [0:30:49]: year over year.

Callan [0:30:50]: Okay.

Callan [0:30:50]: Gotcha.

Troy [0:30:51]: You know, So really, if you start stress it towards six percent or higher, you're and probably break the system.

Callan [0:30:57]: Why?

Callan [0:30:57]: Why is that?

Troy [0:30:58]: They can't handle that much growth on the risk side.

Callan [0:31:01]: Because it a service?

Callan [0:31:01]: Because the service is so high on that side?

Troy [0:31:04]: The way it's built with the dollars that come in there.

Troy [0:31:06]: You you don't have long term growth of four five six percent.

Troy [0:31:10]: And so what drives?

Troy [0:31:11]: Is that is that disability in shirt?

Troy [0:31:14]: Like, what drives this service?

Troy [0:31:15]: You know, there's a lot smarter people than I am.

Troy [0:31:17]: Okay.

Callan [0:31:18]: Gotcha.

Troy [0:31:18]: Including including all the Mckenzie fee?

Troy [0:31:20]: Yeah.

Callan [0:31:20]: Yeah.

Callan [0:31:20]: Yeah.

Troy [0:31:21]: That came in, and they sit there and said, look, if you're gonna optimize deliverables of what you you'd be able to do for your clients have been around for a hundred and hundred and fifty years, here's your sweet spot of growth.

Troy [0:31:32]: So when you understand that that's what good looks like in that spectrum.

Troy [0:31:38]: On the investment side, so many people in our industry that are strictly on the asset management, really don't do client acquisition.

Troy [0:31:46]: It's very common from the acquire single digit new clients in a year, which it just blows my mind.

Callan [0:31:51]: Get the book to where they wanted.

Callan [0:31:52]: They can live pure life style things.

Troy [0:31:54]: And so it's market driven a lot of times.

Troy [0:31:56]: Right?

Troy [0:31:56]: Because I'm not adding a bunch of new clients and if my clients get older and they're in the phase, it I can actually go backwards in space.

Troy [0:32:03]: Well in our business model where we're doing new client acquisition period for holistic financial planning.

Troy [0:32:10]: And if you're doing it normally, you're gonna pick up new clients regardless.

Troy [0:32:14]: And if you're doing that correctly, I've got a back where we can grow twelve to fifteen percent a year on the investment side and to me that's normal.

Troy [0:32:22]: So if we're growing three percent on the risk side and twelve to fifteen percent investment, That's normal growth.

Troy [0:32:29]: Now, again, they're not...

Troy [0:32:30]: We did start in the same spot and we're not gonna end in the same spot.

Troy [0:32:32]: And it's okay reconciling and saying this is what good looks like.

Troy [0:32:38]: And then it's my job to help my advisors understand that if you're growing by three four five percent on your risk side consistently, but five percent or six percent on your investment side, that's not good.

Troy [0:32:49]: Just like if you're growing by fifteen to twenty percent on the investment side and you're flat or going backwards on the risk side, That's not good.

Callan [0:32:56]: Mh.

Troy [0:32:57]: How do we look at what good holistic planning is.

Troy [0:32:59]: And so part of this and and growing and we kinda joke, like, hey.

Troy [0:33:04]: To get the first billion dollars of assets management.

Troy [0:33:06]: That's the hard part.

Troy [0:33:07]: Then it starts flipping over just a law of large numbers.

Troy [0:33:09]: Yeah.

Troy [0:33:10]: You go to two to three to three billion to four to five and six billion and you can start to imagine if you're growing at fifteen sixteen percent, it doesn't take you long to flip that thing over.

Callan [0:33:20]: Sure.

Callan [0:33:20]: Hundred percent.

Troy [0:33:21]: And that's where we are as we're dealing now with the large law numbers where when I took over, we had just a couple hundred million of.

Troy [0:33:27]: Under management.

Troy [0:33:28]: It it really wasn't an investment organization.

Callan [0:33:31]: And now you're at with three point two billion.

Troy [0:33:33]: Three point two billion.

Callan [0:33:34]: So one of the things I'm kinda curious is when...

Callan [0:33:36]: You know, you talked about this change that you had to make from one to five or or, I'm sorry.

Callan [0:33:40]: One to five years.

Callan [0:33:41]: What was the change that you needed to make in years five through ten to be the right leader at eleven through fifteen?

Troy [0:33:49]: It is recognizing that I went from a what I would consider a small organization?

Troy [0:33:54]: To a big small organization that needed to change into infrastructure, delegate empower a lot more people where I was in the trenches doing everything running hard and fast because I had to.

Troy [0:34:05]: Now I'm empowering people in that next five years to grow the organization and departments.

Troy [0:34:12]: And then I found out that about five years into that.

Troy [0:34:15]: Hey, now we're into a small large organization.

Troy [0:34:19]: Well, now that's a different way to lead different cadence of meetings, different levels of now you got leaders teaching leaders that's going on.

Troy [0:34:27]: Now you don't have the relationships.

Troy [0:34:29]: It's close to tight when you start to get to an organization it has a hundred and sixty hundred and seven hundred and eighty people in it.

Troy [0:34:34]: It's very different from me walking down the hallways being in the first five years and knowing everybody to walk around and I have a hundred and eighty people where it's like, oh, I didn't know that this is a new person.

Troy [0:34:45]: This new person being added an the organization all the time.

Troy [0:34:47]: And so now I've got to change about frequency, cadence, what is okay for me from interaction with my advisors.

Troy [0:34:56]: Know one of the biggest complaints is people want more of my time.

Troy [0:34:59]: And as we know it's a precious commodity and and there's a stress on how many people want more of your time, because maybe they were used to it in the first five years or in that second five years.

Troy [0:35:09]: And now it's harder for you just to have the go grab a lunch meeting that they they crave.

Callan [0:35:15]: How do you prioritize your time?

Troy [0:35:17]: Yeah.

Troy [0:35:17]: And I think it's a work in progress.

Troy [0:35:18]: I think it's a work in progress that I have to continuously get better.

Troy [0:35:22]: What I think my organization needs right now is some of my largest firms need me more as a business partner business consultant.

Troy [0:35:30]: And that's new versus three to five years ago as they were grown.

Troy [0:35:35]: But we've got some firms out there that have grown expanding rapidly.

Troy [0:35:38]: Again, large numbers they're starting to flip over rapidly.

Troy [0:35:42]: And now they're in spaces, Calendar, they're not used to.

Troy [0:35:45]: They're or talk about, hey, I got to build this financial planning business?

Troy [0:35:49]: Now do I need office managers and do I need staff?

Troy [0:35:52]: And do I need to run my meetings different?

Troy [0:35:54]: And what's my Hr world look like As I've gone from one or two of us to ten or twelve of us.

Troy [0:35:59]: So I have to show up as more of a business consultant.

Troy [0:36:02]: Well, that's very different than to have the advisors who's been around for thirty years who's still running his or her sole practice.

Troy [0:36:09]: And I've gotta center and say this isn't good or bad people are right or wrong.

Troy [0:36:13]: Just my time needs to be spent in the more complex situations that the organization needs, and I just need to continue to keep relationships.

Troy [0:36:22]: If it's simpler and people are run a simple practice and that's what they're most comfortable with.

Callan [0:36:27]: Do you try to create a succession plan for yourself in that not succession plan for this as a whole.

Callan [0:36:33]: But meaning, okay.

Callan [0:36:35]: I was fulfilling these rules for these people.

Callan [0:36:38]: Is that something that you just look to backfill?

Callan [0:36:40]: Or or is it that some of this?

Callan [0:36:42]: Just maybe that wasn't as needed or was needed at the time?

Callan [0:36:46]: It's probably not needed as more?

Callan [0:36:47]: And I just have to drop it?

Callan [0:36:48]: Or is this something totally different?

Troy [0:36:50]: Right, I think that's gets into your org chart.

Troy [0:36:52]: Right?

Troy [0:36:52]: Your future vision org chart.

Troy [0:36:54]: Do I...

Troy [0:36:54]: I have a very clear twenty thirty org chart.

Troy [0:36:56]: What's needed There.

Troy [0:36:57]: There are spots on the org chart with no names.

Troy [0:36:59]: It's just this what the organization is going to need and am I gonna grow that internally, do I need to go find that from outside in?

Troy [0:37:07]: But having the vision to understand what can you deliver to your advisors since your staff needed, whether you're built for it now or you need to be in a position to get built for it?

Troy [0:37:17]: Is something I'm constantly working on.

Troy [0:37:19]: It's always a chess.

Troy [0:37:20]: But about all the time.

Troy [0:37:22]: Look, there's some key people, domino effect of seeing these organizations and what they need to do knowing what my time and how much I could do that.

Troy [0:37:29]: I needed to grow a very talented internal person.

Troy [0:37:32]: Who was running one thing for a long time, get him out of his comfort zone to teach and grow him to be more of a a consultant for sophisticated practices.

Troy [0:37:42]: But if you have that, then you're needing to backfill with really talented to take over his roles some responsibilities.

Troy [0:37:48]: Where is that come from?

Troy [0:37:50]: And it's a continuous domino effect.

Troy [0:37:52]: Well, we you guys strip this back and say, well, this key person who I can see three moves ahead, they need different support now to free them up to be able to learn this to take this from this person to free them up be able to step into this new role.

Troy [0:38:04]: And that's part of always maybe moving people before they're ready, and they don't always see my chess board, and that's something I could probably do a better job of is sharing out loud my moves.

Troy [0:38:17]: So I'm pretty good about seeing it, but not always sharing it.

Troy [0:38:20]: And it's it's a opportunity for me to share the vibe behind the what I think that we need to do things differently or new as organizations organization continues to grow because I, you know, Let's go to twenty thirty.

Troy [0:38:31]: We'll probably be managing six billion dollars we'll probably be doing, you know, fifteen plus million we'll be two hundred and thirty people organization.

Troy [0:38:42]: That looks way different than where we are now.

Callan [0:38:46]: What does your role look like at that point?

Troy [0:38:49]: I think that's where I move into really a consultant role, and that's gonna be new because you you lose relationships when you get into just consulting.

Troy [0:38:59]: With teams in helping them discover the complexity of size and scale, you know, we have teams looking at becoming national and and maybe absorbing national practices And what's that look like when you have one the space out of Columbus that has satellite offices in Minnesota and Arizona.

Troy [0:39:19]: Well, we don't have it right now, but it's probably coming.

Troy [0:39:22]: Interesting.

Troy [0:39:23]: And and how do I help lead them through that?

Troy [0:39:26]: How do I help through succession planning and how do I help through more teaming.

Troy [0:39:29]: And so I've got to stay on the tip of the spear to be relevant and understand what resources are needing be led, which means that I've gotta make sure my team behind me with the blocking and tackling that's worked for us.

Troy [0:39:41]: That ball doesn't get dropped.

Troy [0:39:43]: And that means I gotta really empower and teach that next level of leadership, so I can show up three and five years now down the way and help continue to lead let me sophisticated planning practices into something that's all new for them.

Callan [0:39:58]: How do you stay on top of how to do that?

Callan [0:40:02]: Is are you...

Callan [0:40:02]: Do you look into, like, the independent space?

Callan [0:40:04]: Right?

Callan [0:40:04]: Because independence in the big nationals of whether it's P and C Life it doesn't matter.

Callan [0:40:08]: They've...

Callan [0:40:09]: They've done this for many years, Is it peer groups?

Callan [0:40:11]: Is it something different?

Callan [0:40:13]: What does that look like?

Troy [0:40:14]: Yeah.

Troy [0:40:14]: You, you know, independence have a lot of of stuff that they've been doing that.

Troy [0:40:16]: They've been first movers some space.

Troy [0:40:18]: And so there's a lot of mistakes they've made, and there's a lot of things they've figured out very, very well.

Troy [0:40:22]: And it's our constraints continue to change over time.

Troy [0:40:25]: And it's as things that we never thought were ever gonna be allowed, start to become something that we can talk about do differently.

Troy [0:40:32]: Well, I've gotta continue to change my mindset.

Troy [0:40:34]: I've gotta talk with great peer groups.

Troy [0:40:37]: I've gotta work with our corporate leadership to see what their vision, their directions going.

Troy [0:40:42]: How do I help support that?

Troy [0:40:44]: And I think a lot of times it's my advisers.

Troy [0:40:46]: Colin, it's talking with these large teams about what is on their vision list?

Troy [0:40:50]: Where is the the little rubs that are not hindrances, but annoy.

Troy [0:40:56]: And it something that we could...

Troy [0:40:57]: To to remove to allow them.

Troy [0:40:59]: It's the most creative people usually though.

Troy [0:41:01]: To let the advisors a really good business plan advisors are super creative.

Troy [0:41:05]: And then it's...

Troy [0:41:06]: How do I help them do that within the box of the that we get to operate in?

Callan [0:41:10]: Here's a question because, you know, the majority of the people that we have on here independence.

Callan [0:41:14]: And they're pretty large in national.

Callan [0:41:16]: But I...

Callan [0:41:17]: You know, I was independent, I was capitalized as independent.

Callan [0:41:19]: A lot of times Guide rules can lead to really creative solutions.

Callan [0:41:22]: And I have said that captive do a really good j.

Callan [0:41:28]: Captive know their product front back.

Callan [0:41:31]: Just kind of the nature of the system that that it's in.

Callan [0:41:35]: They know every...

Callan [0:41:36]: And so they're they're very good at placing that.

Callan [0:41:37]: I'm curious what outside of the obvious advantages of, you know, what I was...

Callan [0:41:42]: You captive at Northwestern Mutual, I had more resources than I realized.

Callan [0:41:49]: Right?

Callan [0:41:49]: I thought just because I was new in this career.

Callan [0:41:52]: I was like, Oh, man.

Callan [0:41:53]: This is tough.

Callan [0:41:54]: I gotta do it all my own.

Callan [0:41:54]: And I went independent and I go, oh, not no.

Callan [0:41:56]: No.

Callan [0:41:56]: Now I do.

Troy [0:41:58]: Yeah.

Troy [0:41:58]: Yeah Yeah.

Troy [0:41:58]: No.

Troy [0:41:59]: I understand what on my own is.

Callan [0:42:00]: That.

Callan [0:42:00]: That was it was very different.

Callan [0:42:02]: But I'm curious.

Callan [0:42:04]: What are those advantages that you see or areas that force potentially creativity from being in that system.

Troy [0:42:12]: It is an interesting dichotomy between support infrastructure, remove barriers and allow creativity still to flourish.

Troy [0:42:21]: And it's a balancing act and I can't say that we've always gotten it right.

Troy [0:42:25]: I think sometimes we swing the pin on one side too much, and then we kind of come back.

Troy [0:42:31]: Oh.

Troy [0:42:31]: Okay.

Troy [0:42:31]: Well, we might have gone one way both on a freedom or we might have gone a little bit too strict and lot of this is helping my advisors understand that I'm on the same side table with them.

Troy [0:42:43]: My goals try to find a way to yes and do it in the most efficient and effective way possible.

Troy [0:42:48]: Mh.

Troy [0:42:48]: Here's the thing.

Troy [0:42:49]: You don't have to do it on your own.

Troy [0:42:50]: Where it's gonna cost you a ton of money if you get it wrong.

Troy [0:42:54]: I wanna help figure it out with you or help it figure out in the system where we can help do leverage.

Troy [0:42:59]: You and I think that's a great thing about freedom within a framework is we've got some guard rails out here.

Troy [0:43:05]: You've got a lot of freedom in here to be creative.

Troy [0:43:08]: We get a lot of freedom that we can bring ideas.

Troy [0:43:11]: And being in the business as long as I Can Call, I, you know, I can pick up the phone go right to the top decision maker.

Troy [0:43:18]: Right?

Troy [0:43:18]: I call the CEO.

Troy [0:43:19]: Say, hey, I wanna have a conversation about this.

Troy [0:43:23]: I can call the people the the head of underwriting and say this is just an annoying, so I can put people on committees that are working on, technology that is cutting edge and put my people out there.

Troy [0:43:36]: So their voices is heard as we're centered iterating that next generation of technology.

Troy [0:43:40]: Is gonna help us leverage.

Troy [0:43:41]: Yeah.

Troy [0:43:42]: That's the aspect where independently, you're you're doing this in your own skill set and you're doing it with your own creativity ti and your own resources versus being able to do this and tap into an ecosystem of a lot of really creative people.

Troy [0:43:59]: And figure out how to see what that next generation needs and and what we should look like.

Callan [0:44:05]: If you...

Callan [0:44:05]: And I'm sure this has happened many times.

Callan [0:44:07]: But a new managing partner comes to you, and they inherit a situation maybe not as bad, but similar that you inherited, and they're asking for your advice, what is the first piece of advice that you give them?

Troy [0:44:23]: Thing I asked them to do is they've gotta get very clear about how they need to honor a lot of times the generation before them because there's a lot of advisers that still love or brought in by probably the former one who maybe just retired.

Troy [0:44:37]: Mh.

Troy [0:44:38]: If you will.

Troy [0:44:38]: So you can't come in and just try to switch everything thing you're way.

Troy [0:44:42]: You're gonna lose a lot of people in your organization.

Troy [0:44:44]: So this is this balancing act between, what is that that you feel is really really good in some the core bedrock rocks of that organization that you need to respect you need to maintain you need to grow upon.

Troy [0:44:56]: And you gotta do a lot of fact finding around to figure out really what that is.

Troy [0:45:00]: What is some of your ideas of how to help this organization grow rapidly And then how do you marry it in the what time period.

Callan [0:45:10]: Mh.

Troy [0:45:10]: So don't do like I did, which was coming with the fire hose and say, hey, we're gonna do this all from day one because that doesn't work.

Troy [0:45:17]: I could say, tried that doesn't work.

Troy [0:45:21]: You'll end up apologizing.

Troy [0:45:22]: But if you have eight nine ten great ideas.

Troy [0:45:25]: This is what I think it gets lost in it.

Troy [0:45:27]: I said Tell them me what are your top two.

Troy [0:45:29]: The other six aren't bad ideas now.

Troy [0:45:31]: Just...

Troy [0:45:32]: Well, let's just focus on implementing two.

Troy [0:45:34]: Because you've gotta keep a lot of the stuff you gotta build relationships with people.

Troy [0:45:38]: You gotta figure out that this new iteration of an organization is not going to be yours until over half the people in the organization people you've brought in.

Troy [0:45:50]: Yeah.

Troy [0:45:50]: So if you have a hundred advisors.

Troy [0:45:52]: It's not gonna be your organization for many, many, many years.

Troy [0:45:57]: Mh.

Troy [0:45:58]: So take your top couple good ideas, get them implemented and get them integrated, then let's go back and revisit your list, They they didn't go bad.

Troy [0:46:06]: And I think that's the thing new with managing partners sometimes struggle with is we have tendency to do all of it as quickly as possible.

Troy [0:46:14]: Instead of understanding that we've got a layer growth and change because somebody's been doing this business for twenty years, and you you change it on it.

Troy [0:46:23]: It's uncomfortable for most people.

Troy [0:46:25]: Change.

Troy [0:46:25]: Just...

Troy [0:46:25]: That's not a uncomfortable feeling.

Callan [0:46:28]: Mh.

Troy [0:46:28]: And they already have a new leadership who they're trying to figure out new philosophies and new beliefs.

Troy [0:46:33]: You gotta be able just to slowly, which is hard.

Troy [0:46:37]: Understand to read the room of how much change and how quickly you can do it.

Callan [0:46:41]: How do you do that?

Troy [0:46:42]: I think it's a lot of feedback.

Troy [0:46:43]: I think you watch feedback.

Troy [0:46:45]: How quickly do your new ideas get implemented and how quickly do they get integrated into just culturally of the organization.

Troy [0:46:51]: If those one or two ideas get picked up quickly and their excitement and their accelerators.

Troy [0:46:55]: Now I can move on to three and four.

Troy [0:46:58]: But if there's one or two, and you got a lot of people questioning it, it's not going as quickly as you wanted, you got a lot more groundwork to do.

Troy [0:47:04]: You got a lot more helping people understand why that we're doing and doing the things that we're doing this maybe be different or new.

Troy [0:47:09]: That's what's going on there.

Troy [0:47:10]: So how quickly they get assimilated to it, gives you how quickly to step on the gas pedal.

Callan [0:47:16]: Last question I got for you.

Callan [0:47:17]: If we're sitting here ten years time.

Troy [0:47:20]: Mh.

Callan [0:47:21]: Having the same conversation, everything went to plan, what does it look like?

Troy [0:47:27]: If everything went the plan ten years from now, I would have my successor.

Troy [0:47:30]: I would be in a position where I'm passing Baton over to new person new generation of ideas.

Troy [0:47:36]: I think our organization would continue to be the top one in our peer group across the country.

Troy [0:47:44]: I think in ten years, we'd have at least nine years of all time records levels ten years would feel really good.

Troy [0:47:52]: We've got some of the most skilled and highly compensated internal people in the system.

Troy [0:47:57]: Columbus is known nationally as one of the best financial plan organizations out there.

Troy [0:48:05]: That is what at my retirement dinner, I wanna see to be able to hand up baton over and let someone build on that and take it to levels that I can't even envision.

Callan [0:48:14]: What does that look like for you personally?

Troy [0:48:17]: You know, I want to get to a point where I can groom and and spend time pouring into people in those last two, three years especially.

Troy [0:48:24]: And I don't know what that next chapter looks like.

Troy [0:48:28]: I don't know yet what I wanna do just spending my time.

Troy [0:48:31]: I've got a lot of energy.

Troy [0:48:32]: I love getting into other businesses.

Troy [0:48:34]: I love consulting.

Troy [0:48:35]: I love helping businesses build and grow and scale.

Troy [0:48:38]: And so I don't know Cow what that looks like for me.

Troy [0:48:43]: Years five through ten, but no I'm excited about it.

Troy [0:48:47]: I don't got a lot of energy for it.

Troy [0:48:49]: And if I can help other business owners continue to wrap their arms around and grow and and prosper, and I can help them understand mistakes that I've made that they don't have to make.

Troy [0:49:01]: Yeah.

Troy [0:49:01]: And it doesn't help that internally or externally to me that's that feels fulfilled.

Callan [0:49:06]: Well, I'm excited to see it.

Callan [0:49:08]: I've got a lot of respect for what you build.

Callan [0:49:10]: I still take a lot of things that you said going all the way back to two thousand eight still.

Callan [0:49:14]: From, like, Troy said this

Troy [0:49:17]: damn It was good.

Troy [0:49:17]: I still apply

Callan [0:49:20]: it to this day.

Callan [0:49:21]: So this has been a lot of fun.

Callan [0:49:22]: I I love diving into the full story.

Callan [0:49:25]: It's so cool to see where it was then to where it is now.

Callan [0:49:27]: Appreciate you coming on the show today.

Troy [0:49:30]: Appreciate you having me, Callan.

Troy [0:49:30]: Thank you.