How Diane Brickner Grew Peace Hills Insurance From 3 Employees to $500M in Premium

Diane [0:00:00]: To me the biggest thing that made peace continuously profitable and and still today is the relationship that we have with our brokers.

Diane [0:00:07]: That relationship is extremely strong.

Diane [0:00:10]: And, well, we under write our brokers.

Diane [0:00:13]: As much as we under underwriting in business.

Diane [0:00:15]: We believed then this was our philosophy.

Diane [0:00:18]: If we had great brokers, they have great business.

Diane [0:00:21]: And if they had great business, we would be profitable.

Callan [0:00:27]: Welcome to The Insurance Growth Lab.

Callan [0:00:29]: Where we go deep on the growth campaigns and strategies driving real results in the insurance industry.

Callan [0:00:35]: Up uptown Harrington founder of Flashgrowth and in each episode, I sit down with marketing and growth leaders from carriers and shirt tech and top brokers to break down one specific initiative, whether it's how they marketed a product, scale to channel or solved a specific growth challenge.

Callan [0:00:52]: It's no fluff, just tactical insight you can apply in your own company.

Callan [0:01:01]: Diane, I'm really excited about this.

Callan [0:01:03]: I've been really deep in going through the whole piece story these past couple weeks.

Callan [0:01:08]: And fortunately, you know, there's a book out there some great videos on the story of Peace Hills, which I understand why.

Callan [0:01:14]: It is a really interesting very unique company history.

Callan [0:01:18]: And one of the things I was curious about is can you walk us through there's in those meetings where you're discussing Peace Hills profit, right before you took over as president CEO.

Diane [0:01:32]: Sure.

Diane [0:01:32]: Well, there wasn't any piece sales profits before I took over.

Diane [0:01:35]: I took over as CEO in nineteen ninety one.

Diane [0:01:39]: So...

Diane [0:01:39]: Ten years, pretty much ten years from when the company first started, and we didn't have any profits.

Diane [0:01:46]: So I mean, the company suffered for the first ten years.

Diane [0:01:49]: And consequently, that was the main reason why they made a CEO change.

Diane [0:01:53]: So they, part company with the first CEO and asked if I would just come in as interim until they could find a, a permanent replacement.

Diane [0:02:03]: So I...

Diane [0:02:03]: Of course, I said, yes.

Diane [0:02:05]: I hired all these people, I couldn't turn my back on them.

Diane [0:02:07]: So The first thing I had to do as the CEO was go out and ask the shareholder for an injection of capital because, of course, we were so heavily regulated as an insurance company, and we needed to have a certain amount of capital to continue to keep the company going.

Diane [0:02:22]: Bill had done this.

Diane [0:02:24]: The previous CEO had done this every year for pretty much ten years, and it was difficult.

Diane [0:02:29]: I remember him coming back after those meetings, and that was a tough day for him

Callan [0:02:34]: to go out and

Diane [0:02:35]: ask for that money.

Diane [0:02:35]: And so was even tougher for me because I had never done it before, and to be honest he was scared to death.

Diane [0:02:42]: Hey, anyway, so, I made the drive.

Diane [0:02:44]: It was about an hour drive to what was called being at the time to this shareholder.

Diane [0:02:48]: They were having a chief and counsel meeting because as, you know, the company's solely owned by the Stamps cremation.

Diane [0:02:56]: Anyway, so I got out there.

Diane [0:02:58]: They were having a council meeting, and I, I met with them, and they called me into the meeting room, And so I explained to them that, you know, the company did not have a good year, but we needed seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars to keep the company going.

Diane [0:03:11]: And so, you know, went around the table, they asked questions.

Diane [0:03:14]: And I remember, I think it was Todd Buffalo, but that said to me Diane.

Diane [0:03:19]: Is this company ever going to make a profit.

Diane [0:03:22]: And I said absolutely.

Diane [0:03:24]: Absolutely.

Diane [0:03:24]: I have no doubt in my mind that we are going to make a profit.

Diane [0:03:27]: Yes.

Diane [0:03:27]: And and he sent to me.

Diane [0:03:29]: You think we'll ever make a million dollars in a year and I said, no.

Diane [0:03:32]: No.

Diane [0:03:33]: I'm not I think we're gonna make million dollars in year.

Diane [0:03:35]: That's a lot of money.

Diane [0:03:36]: But we will definitely make a profit.

Diane [0:03:38]: And then last year, they made a fifteen million dollar profit year before it was twenty one million.

Diane [0:03:44]: So the company did well from about that point on, and we never never look back.

Diane [0:03:51]: So, you know...

Callan [0:03:52]: I love that story, and just to kinda of double down on on what you just mentioned.

Callan [0:03:56]: Shortly after that.

Callan [0:03:57]: When I say shortly after it, as I understand, it was the date after that, you became the president and CEO, which you also became Canada's first female insurance company president and CEO, and you really built it into what it is today.

Callan [0:04:12]: And for those that aren't aware piece Hills has over three hundred and fifty employees, a half a billion a year premiums in over two hundred thousand policy holders.

Callan [0:04:20]: And then on top of that, you were just elected to the junior achievement hall of fame.

Callan [0:04:26]: Somebody May hear that story and say, I don't know.

Callan [0:04:29]: Maybe Diane was just setting in a low bar just so she can blast through any expectations.

Diane [0:04:35]: Well, is it pretty low bar.

Diane [0:04:36]: You're absolutely right.

Diane [0:04:37]: Know.

Callan [0:04:39]: You know, I I alluded to this earlier, but when you look at those numbers now, you know, it's easy to assume that it was always going to work out.

Callan [0:04:46]: But I'd love to kinda dive into the story of Piece Hills because I think it's so interesting.

Callan [0:04:51]: You know, when you joined, this wasn't even...

Callan [0:04:54]: I mean, it it really wasn't even a company yet.

Callan [0:04:57]: And.

Callan [0:04:57]: There's three people, an idea, a check had not arrived yet, And you are also walking away from eight years and in as I understand it, you were really on the rise at royal insurance.

Callan [0:05:09]: What made you take that leap?

Diane [0:05:12]: Yeah.

Diane [0:05:12]: Truly, a lot of people asked me that question, including my husband to start with, You're right.

Diane [0:05:17]: I did have a great career path with the royal insurance company.

Diane [0:05:20]: They were amazing to me.

Diane [0:05:22]: They treated me exceptionally well.

Diane [0:05:24]: I sent to Toronto three or four times a year for education.

Diane [0:05:27]: That was the first female on the road.

Diane [0:05:29]: It was a great job, and they were a fantastic company.

Diane [0:05:31]: And then one day, I got a call from a fellow by the name of Bill Holt.

Diane [0:05:34]: And I didn't know bill.

Diane [0:05:35]: Well.

Diane [0:05:36]: I knew of him because they're...

Diane [0:05:37]: The insurance industry in Alberta was fairly small.

Diane [0:05:40]: And and so I had heard his name I knew, of him, but I didn't know him.

Diane [0:05:44]: And he asked if I would have lunch with him, and I said,

Callan [0:05:46]: sure.

Diane [0:05:47]: So we went out for lunch, and by the time that lunch was over, he had convinced me that I wanted to give up the career that I had with Royal, and that I wanted to be part of something that was new was unique, was an adventure was exciting, and I went home that night and disgusted.

Diane [0:06:07]: Said, with my husband.

Diane [0:06:08]: He shaking his head and saying, no I don't know I quite understand, but if that's what you wanna do.

Diane [0:06:12]: You go for it.

Diane [0:06:13]: And I did.

Diane [0:06:14]: I did.

Diane [0:06:15]: And of course, my boss was devastated.

Diane [0:06:17]: Hit me...

Diane [0:06:18]: Well, yeah devastated was probably not a good word, but he was why would you do this?

Diane [0:06:22]: And and so many people get asked me, why would you do this?

Diane [0:06:24]: I never once asked myself that after the day I walked into that office.

Diane [0:06:29]: It was like, yeah.

Diane [0:06:31]: This is where I want.

Diane [0:06:32]: It was a great great career.

Callan [0:06:35]: For you was it the opportunity to build something was that you liked the idea of it?

Callan [0:06:40]: Did you think that they were doing something?

Callan [0:06:41]: Or they wanted to at least do something differently?

Callan [0:06:44]: What did that look like?

Diane [0:06:46]: It was an opportunity to do something new and exciting.

Diane [0:06:49]: Not that I was bored with what I was doing, but the opportunity to start something from nothing to build something, that I mean, that opportunity doesn't come up.

Diane [0:07:00]: I mean, I I I think the last time an insurance company in Alberta was started was...

Diane [0:07:04]: I don't like twenty some years prior to this.

Diane [0:07:07]: And to start a new interest, I mean, the startups were not something back in the, eighties.

Diane [0:07:12]: You'd never heard the word startup up, where were one of the first start to start up, And it was exciting And so I can't really put my finger on why I accepted, but I did feel that it was an opportunity that I couldn't let pass.

Callan [0:07:27]: Yeah.

Callan [0:07:27]: Almost as if it was a is a calling.

Callan [0:07:29]: And, you know, one of the things you had alluded to this, but they laid us out in the book specifically.

Callan [0:07:35]: And they said there was, you know, four or five reasons why this really shouldn't have even happened in how difficult that was to pull that off.

Callan [0:07:42]: Insurance companies aren't usually for sale.

Callan [0:07:45]: The purchase and startup up costs are enormous.

Diane [0:07:48]: Right.

Callan [0:07:48]: A new one could only be incorporated through an act legislature.

Diane [0:07:52]: That's right.

Diane [0:07:52]: Yes.

Callan [0:07:53]: That process can take years, Yes.

Callan [0:07:55]: And as far as anyone knew, there had never been a first nation's owned insurance company anywhere in North America?

Diane [0:08:01]: Exactly.

Diane [0:08:01]: That's

Callan [0:08:02]: right.

Callan [0:08:02]: How did you pull this off?

Callan [0:08:03]: How did that early team pull this off?

Diane [0:08:06]: Well, that happened before I came on board, but what ended up happening is the Samsung cremation, were receiving a huge amount of money from oil royalties that were on their reserve.

Diane [0:08:16]: And their chief and counsel knew that at some point that those...

Diane [0:08:20]: That oil industry the oil industry or the oil on their reserve would be depleted and they knew that they needed to take some of this money and invest it into something that...

Diane [0:08:30]: As they said, a very long term investment, an investment for their grandchildren grandchildren or a very long term investment.

Diane [0:08:36]: And they did hire a consultant that worked with them, and he recommended a banking facility and an insurance company.

Diane [0:08:43]: So in nineteen eighty year eighty one, they started T trust, which is a banking facility, and then in nineteen eighty two, they started peace sales insurance.

Diane [0:08:52]: But that started prior to eighty two.

Diane [0:08:54]: So they had...

Diane [0:08:55]: So you're right.

Diane [0:08:56]: To start an insurance company, it would take a tremendous amount of money, and a tremendous amount of time to go through the regulators and and legislation and etcetera, etcetera.

Diane [0:09:04]: So one of the fellows that they contacted his name is Tom Sad, and he also partnered with following from Newfoundland Rex Anthony and the two of them were quite instrumental in the startup up of the organization.

Diane [0:09:17]: And they came across a dormant charter, and it was the Edmonton Canadian insurance company, and it was owned by Canadian Surety, which you're too young to remember who Canadian Surety was.

Diane [0:09:30]: Anyway.

Diane [0:09:30]: It was the dormant charter had been sitting there for how long I have no idea.

Diane [0:09:34]: And so they approached them and offered to buy the charter from them.

Diane [0:09:39]: And so we, fortunately were able to get a charter.

Diane [0:09:42]: That had already gone through all of the regulations and the legislation, etcetera etcetera.

Diane [0:09:47]: And for a very small amount of money.

Diane [0:09:50]: I think it was half a million dollars or something they were able to purchase this charter.

Diane [0:09:54]: And all we had to do was up by to the regulator to change the name.

Diane [0:09:58]: And so from the Edmonton Canadian insurance company, we...

Diane [0:10:02]: It was changed to peace sales insurance.

Diane [0:10:03]: And they wanted it to be p cells because the land and the property around where their residents are, the reserve is.

Diane [0:10:11]: Is called Peaceful Hills.

Diane [0:10:12]: And so that was important to them for the insurance company be called Peaceful hills insurance.

Callan [0:10:17]: So one, miraculous that you could pull that off.

Callan [0:10:20]: And then number two, and you talked about this a minute ago, there hadn't been a new insurance company in a very long time in Alberta.

Callan [0:10:28]: And you had twenty four brokers signed to a brand new unknown insurance company before you've written a single policy.

Callan [0:10:36]: Right How?

Callan [0:10:37]: How did that happen?

Diane [0:10:39]: Well, Bill had some huge connections, of course, because of his house and his personality and and his reputation in the industry was excellent.

Diane [0:10:47]: And so he approached twelve brokers, and I approached twelve that I had done business with and had a great relationship with at the royal.

Diane [0:10:54]: And as it turned out, I could be just as convincing as bill could be, and they were excited.

Diane [0:10:59]: I, you know, it's interesting.

Diane [0:11:00]: The brokers that we approached, not one of them said no.

Diane [0:11:04]: Not one of them, and they were just as excited about this new opportunity as we were.

Diane [0:11:08]: But also what was amazing was our competitors.

Diane [0:11:12]: When we started by started December of nineteen eighty one as did Brenda, who was Bill's executive assistant and her and I started with Bill working with him on December fourteenth nineteen eighty one, and we had to put together all of our wording and our rates and our brokers contracts, etcetera, etcetera.

Diane [0:11:30]: And our competitors brought their manuals to us and said here, take these, uses them if you want, take what's best out of each one of them or what you want.

Diane [0:11:41]: We would like to see you succeed.

Diane [0:11:44]: We don't wanna see somebody come into the insurance industry and fail.

Diane [0:11:48]: So We had both Bill and I had excellent relationships with the community and the insurance community in in Alberta, and which was very fortunate because as I said, the brokers supported us and our competitors.

Diane [0:12:01]: Also supported us, which was excellent.

Diane [0:12:04]: Now that didn't last long because once we got...

Diane [0:12:07]: We became quite successful then.

Diane [0:12:09]: Then of course, it was a different story.

Diane [0:12:11]: But but in the beginning, they were fantastic.

Diane [0:12:14]: The brokers were great.

Diane [0:12:15]: And as I said, our competitors were great too.

Diane [0:12:18]: So...

Diane [0:12:18]: We spent from December until February, putting together our wording, and we went out to these twenty four brokers and said, okay, Tell us what insurance company has the best wording.

Diane [0:12:27]: Which company has the best manual, What do you like best about this and, you know, and so we really worked hard at taking bits and pieces of, all of our competitors and making, what we felt was the who was the best product and the best and the best wording at the best manual for the brokers to use?

Diane [0:12:44]: The have unfortunate part was we put our rates together our auto rates together and our property, of course.

Diane [0:12:49]: And the auto rates have to be approved by the Alberta regulator.

Diane [0:12:52]: The auto rate board.

Diane [0:12:54]: It's called.

Diane [0:12:54]: And so we put our rate auto rates together, and we waited so long for the check to arrive that by that time within those six months, every one of our competitors increase their auto rates.

Diane [0:13:05]: So part of the problem with, you know, with...

Diane [0:13:07]: Not making a profit for all those years was because our prices were so low.

Diane [0:13:11]: And our regulator would not allow us to increase the price because we didn't have enough statistical information and and background to margin an increase.

Diane [0:13:19]: So we were under priced for a number of years and business just flooded in the door.

Diane [0:13:25]: Just once once we started writing business, it just was a crazy mountain business that came in.

Callan [0:13:31]: Well, to add on to that, you know, one of the things that I was curious about that because I know that was one of the things from just a timing perspective that was one of those uphill challenges or uphill battles in in the early days.

Callan [0:13:43]: And then on top of that, in nineteen eighty seven and f four tornado struck Alberta, and it was...

Callan [0:13:49]: Maybe it's a huge tragedy that killed twenty seven people, and injured over three hundred.

Callan [0:13:53]: I found that this was often mentioned in the history of Peace hills because it was such an important event.

Callan [0:14:00]: Can you walk us through that time, Peace hills was still a very new company What did that look like?

Callan [0:14:05]: What did the recovery from that event look like?

Diane [0:14:08]: Well, of course, we're a very small company and you're right.

Diane [0:14:11]: And we had only been in business by that time for five years.

Diane [0:14:14]: So we didn't have a huge market share.

Diane [0:14:17]: But we had enough business that it...

Diane [0:14:19]: We...

Diane [0:14:19]: This tiny little company felt the impact significantly.

Diane [0:14:22]: And our reins were extremely great.

Diane [0:14:26]: We've learned very quickly what it was like to have a cat and a catastrophe loss.

Diane [0:14:31]: And so our claims people...

Diane [0:14:33]: I mean, the whole company.

Diane [0:14:34]: It didn't...

Diane [0:14:34]: It did not matter.

Diane [0:14:35]: It wasn't just claims people.

Diane [0:14:37]: It was under reuters.

Diane [0:14:37]: Everybody pitched in and took claims calls, answered questions, whatever it took.

Diane [0:14:43]: It didn't just stop with the claims department.

Diane [0:14:45]: We were so small, and we were just such a close family that it taught us a lot, and we learned a lot because, the insurance that we did business with, they thought we were excellent.

Diane [0:14:54]: They thought we were we were great because we were so attentive to them to and we looked after them so well that in that very short period of time, we...

Diane [0:15:03]: Our brokers totally loved the way pee cells handled our claims files with a small.

Diane [0:15:10]: Well, for us, it was a small cat.

Diane [0:15:12]: Was huge cap for a lot of insurance companies, but because we were so small.

Diane [0:15:15]: It was not.

Diane [0:15:16]: We didn't suffer greatly for that year.

Diane [0:15:19]: I mean, I I can't remember what our results look like from nineteen eighty seven, but it was not a huge loss for us, but it was a huge loss for the industry for sure.

Callan [0:15:28]: You know, it's one of those things.

Callan [0:15:29]: I I have found this time and time again in the businesses that I've worked at and it's a theme that's came up on the show quite a bit that when you're going through those things that you just hit this to the team.

Callan [0:15:41]: The power of just making sure that that service is good.

Callan [0:15:45]: Whether you need to over service it, whatever that might be, just making your responsive, you're on it, that stuff carries through, and I've noticed that I'd be curious if this was the case, You get a little bit of leeway down the road when there's things that either out of your control, things that are in your control and and are just mistakes, you get some grace on that.

Callan [0:16:06]: Did you find that to be the case?

Diane [0:16:07]: What we did internally.

Diane [0:16:08]: Was we learned how we wanted to treat our insurance going forward.

Diane [0:16:14]: What they appreciated and what the brokers appreciated and and it didn't stop.

Diane [0:16:19]: I mean, we had...

Diane [0:16:20]: And remember the year that we had a slag like fire.

Diane [0:16:23]: And there was magazine articles that came out that said peace hills insurance was the best company from a claim standpoint to look after their our insurance.

Diane [0:16:32]: You mentioned just a few minutes ago about this award that I won last week and a man that came up to me, actually two gentlemen came up to me.

Diane [0:16:41]: And one fellow said my daughter and son were insured with peace hills during the slight like fire, and we were very concerned about and what was going to happen, and so I called whenever my friend who's an insurance broker, and he said, well, who are they insured with and he said pee hills, and they broker said you don't have to worry about it.

Diane [0:16:57]: They will look after you, and you will not have to worry about them.

Diane [0:17:00]: And he said they were thrilled with the service that they got from your company.

Diane [0:17:03]: That is a thread, and we had a fire just a huge jasper fire at Nam, and

Callan [0:17:10]: a town

Diane [0:17:10]: of jasper in Alberta, two years ago, just last week, one of our brokers said peace hills.

Diane [0:17:15]: Is the best.

Diane [0:17:17]: They've looked after their clients, the best.

Diane [0:17:19]: And that is important.

Diane [0:17:20]: That's just embedded in the organization.

Diane [0:17:24]: Sure.

Diane [0:17:24]: I mean, we have lots of files like, I'm sure that our insurers are not happy with us for some reason or another, but by and large, that is something we really put a lot of effort into a years ago, for years we'd say, you know, we're not looking for a way to deny claim.

Diane [0:17:40]: We're looking for a way to pay a claim, and that's kind of the thread that's been through the organization right from day one.

Callan [0:17:47]: How do you do that?

Callan [0:17:48]: How do you foster that and maintain that?

Callan [0:17:50]: I mean, in the earlier days, much easier to do because everyone's really bought into this and you know, you're hiring and this becomes a piece of it and it can spread just in kind of just a network knowledge.

Callan [0:18:02]: But as you start to scale, how do you still maintain that and make sure that that's still at the forefront.

Diane [0:18:08]: We have some extreme long term employees And In fact, interestingly enough in the past year.

Diane [0:18:13]: You know, we've had a number of rich retirees.

Diane [0:18:14]: And so people don't leave piece cells.

Diane [0:18:17]: I mean, our turnover has always always been extremely low.

Diane [0:18:21]: So there's a legacy there, of people that understand the culture that understand what piece is about and and that legacy continues with new people.

Diane [0:18:30]: I think anyone that starts, they learn about the history of the company.

Diane [0:18:35]: They learn about the culture of the company That culture is extremely important to management today.

Diane [0:18:42]: And so, yeah, I think that it just grows with the company.

Diane [0:18:45]: And is that as strong maybe not as company gets larger and larger now instead of three people.

Diane [0:18:51]: There's three hundred and fifty some people.

Diane [0:18:53]: Is it more difficult?

Diane [0:18:54]: Absolutely?

Diane [0:18:54]: Is it as tied of family and?

Diane [0:18:57]: No.

Diane [0:18:58]: Maybe of course, it can't be, but I think that's strong culture?

Diane [0:19:02]: It's still there?

Diane [0:19:02]: For sure.

Callan [0:19:04]: And so how did you foster that culture?

Callan [0:19:06]: Were there things that you did specifically to reward and recognizes the people that living through that culture?

Callan [0:19:12]: Or was this something just kind of organically happened, and it just kind of built on itself.

Callan [0:19:17]: What did that look like?

Diane [0:19:18]: Yeah.

Diane [0:19:18]: No.

Diane [0:19:19]: It comes with a lot of hard work, actually.

Diane [0:19:21]: And it's not something that just happens.

Diane [0:19:23]: It happens because you we made it happen.

Diane [0:19:26]: And for example, if you go back to Bill Holt, who was the first CEO, he was excellent.

Diane [0:19:32]: He was a huge people person and Bill built the organization as a family.

Diane [0:19:36]: And so when he left, we probably had thirty people in the organization and we were pretty tight.

Diane [0:19:44]: But some of the things and this is just an example of about Bill and and how he thought.

Diane [0:19:49]: And there was seven of us that worked at he at the time.

Diane [0:19:52]: And he came into my office One, and he said Don.

Diane [0:19:54]: What are you doing for lunch tomorrow?

Diane [0:19:56]: And I said, nothing.

Diane [0:19:57]: No.

Diane [0:19:57]: And he's okay.

Diane [0:19:57]: Well, we're you and not gonna have a lunch tomorrow?

Diane [0:19:59]: I said, okay.

Diane [0:20:00]: Great.

Diane [0:20:00]: And so he sent an inter office memo out to this...

Diane [0:20:04]: Of course, it was handwritten because we didn't have computers or emails or any of those sorts of things.

Diane [0:20:09]: So...

Diane [0:20:09]: So he wrote this inter office memo to the staff and sent it around and and and sent to them, it was like, I don't know, early December, bring your Christmas stocking from home to the office tomorrow and hang it up because Santa's going to fill your stocking.

Diane [0:20:22]: So he and I went out.

Diane [0:20:24]: We went stockings, stuffing shopping.

Diane [0:20:26]: And we filled seven stockings before our Christmas party took them off and filled them up and and gave them to the staff when we had our little...

Diane [0:20:35]: Cocktail party before Christmas.

Diane [0:20:37]: And today, they fill three hundred and fifty five stockings.

Diane [0:20:41]: And that's a big job.

Diane [0:20:43]: So the CEO goes around collects everybody's stocking from their desk.

Diane [0:20:47]: And in our branches, the branch managers collect their stockings, and they fill their stockings and at their Christmas luncheon in the each branch and head office or whatever has.

Diane [0:20:57]: They give those stockings out.

Diane [0:20:59]: And, you know, there's a lot of ladies in our office that are maybe single mum, and they just tucked out stocking aside, and they taken home and they open it at Christmas morning.

Diane [0:21:07]: And, like I said, I mean, when there were seven of us, it was an easy job.

Diane [0:21:11]: Three hundred and fifty five stockings to stuff because becomes a big job.

Diane [0:21:14]: And so that's just part of continuing with the culture of the organization.

Diane [0:21:19]: And making the company part of what we started was if...

Diane [0:21:22]: If you can't have fun while you're here, if you're going to be here, five days a week, eight hours a day, We need to make it fun because both Bill and I believe.

Diane [0:21:32]: You can expect people come to this organization, sit at that desk and just crank out eight hours a day and not enjoy themselves.

Diane [0:21:39]: And so we did things like we had the regulator changed the auto industry back in nineteen earn two thousand and.

Diane [0:21:45]: Or I think it was like, and was stressful.

Diane [0:21:49]: I mean, claims were going to be different on October the first, while the claims were gonna be handled differently.

Diane [0:21:54]: The under integrator have to under rate differently.

Diane [0:21:56]: The prices have to be done.

Diane [0:21:58]: The computer system have to be changed.

Diane [0:21:59]: It was a big job.

Diane [0:22:00]: And the industry was stressed.

Diane [0:22:02]: And I said too, I called our VPs in, and I said, okay.

Diane [0:22:06]: When this day happens on October the first.

Diane [0:22:07]: I think we should make it fun.

Diane [0:22:09]: Everybody so stressed about this.

Diane [0:22:11]: And we need to break that stress.

Diane [0:22:13]: And so I think we're a will at everybody where their pajamas to work that day.

Diane [0:22:16]: And and our VP our VP claims looked at me and said, are you kidding me?

Diane [0:22:24]: You have any idea what these people are gonna go through on that day.

Diane [0:22:29]: And I said, yeah.

Diane [0:22:30]: I I think I do.

Diane [0:22:31]: And I think we need to make sure that they understand that it's not the b all and end all and and that we need to lessen the stress.

Diane [0:22:38]: And so tell them they can wear their pajamas to work.

Diane [0:22:42]: And we'll bring in pizza for lunch.

Diane [0:22:44]: And he was just...

Diane [0:22:45]: He walked out of office just shaking his head.

Diane [0:22:47]: And and we did that.

Diane [0:22:48]: And, I mean, they all did their jobs.

Diane [0:22:50]: They all managed, but they knew it just broke that.

Diane [0:22:54]: So things like that, We, I don't know I'm sure lots of companies do similar things, but we tried to make it an organization that that they could go home and I...

Diane [0:23:02]: And say it was a fun day.

Diane [0:23:04]: I had a great day at work.

Callan [0:23:06]: I mean, there are countless examples just in the research.

Callan [0:23:08]: Of things like you just mentioned.

Callan [0:23:10]: It seemed like p cells really wanted to grain that and continue to reinforce that, which I I thought was really cool.

Callan [0:23:17]: You know, one of the things I I'd love to to dive into here is So go back a little bit.

Callan [0:23:23]: You know, we've talked about the initial conversations that you had right before you became CEO, but there were a couple things that really stood out.

Callan [0:23:32]: Before you became the CEO, you received a letter from an employee named George.

Callan [0:23:38]: Can you talk about that?

Callan [0:23:39]: Can you share that story?

Diane [0:23:41]: Derek.

Diane [0:23:41]: Of course, Bill and I were very close.

Diane [0:23:44]: And he was, like, my mentor, He was he was a great boss.

Diane [0:23:48]: And the staff just looked up to him and and respected him so much.

Diane [0:23:51]: So...

Diane [0:23:52]: When they part a company with Bill, and they asked if I would just step in on an interim basis.

Diane [0:23:57]: Like I said earlier, I I, of course, I couldn't say, no.

Diane [0:24:01]: I had...

Diane [0:24:02]: But I've remember heard somebody coming to me and say, we're all excited and to say that they had just got their mortgage approved.

Diane [0:24:08]: And I'm thinking oh my god.

Diane [0:24:10]: You know, like I felt responsible.

Diane [0:24:11]: Of there was there is a feeling of responsibility when you hire all these people.

Diane [0:24:15]: Anyway, so when they let Bill go, I was devastated, and I I had no intention of stepping in and even putting my name forward for his job because I could not see myself filling his shoes.

Diane [0:24:28]: Like, I felt it would be disrespectful.

Diane [0:24:30]: I I couldn't see myself doing that.

Diane [0:24:32]: And then one day I did.

Diane [0:24:34]: I got.

Diane [0:24:34]: And I I was sure of course, that, you know, our brokers that had appointed us and trusted us.

Diane [0:24:40]: We're going to say, well, without Bill, we're gone, we'll probably cancel our contract and move on.

Diane [0:24:45]: Or the employees would start looking for other jobs except, whatever.

Diane [0:24:49]: And and so there...

Diane [0:24:50]: I walked in my office one morning and there was a letter on...

Diane [0:24:53]: And white and wolf one my desk.

Diane [0:24:54]: And I thought, oh, here's the first resignation, and it wasn't.

Diane [0:24:57]: It was a letter from George, and it was basically just say, you know what, we all feel the same way that we feel that you should put your name forward that we want you to step into bill's job if if that's possible.

Diane [0:25:10]: And you have our support.

Diane [0:25:13]: And so Yeah.

Diane [0:25:14]: I mean, that that changed my mind, but there was also Brenda.

Diane [0:25:17]: Brenda came into my office one day and she basically grabbed me, like, by the sc in the neck literally and said, what's wrong with you?

Diane [0:25:26]: Like, what is wrong with you.

Diane [0:25:28]: Why are you mop around here like this?

Diane [0:25:29]: It takes more than one person to build this company, and we all love Bill, but you need to, you need to step in here and pull up your socks, be a big girl.

Diane [0:25:39]: So...

Diane [0:25:39]: Yeah.

Diane [0:25:40]: So I applied for the job, but I think there was others that applied.

Diane [0:25:43]: I'm assuming.

Diane [0:25:43]: And I was successful for...

Diane [0:25:45]: But right, it was it was a very stressful time for me because I had so much respect for that, man.

Callan [0:25:52]: You know, that's one of the things I was curious about because he it seems like he was...

Callan [0:25:57]: In and and you had mentioned this many times that he was a very loved and admired leader.

Callan [0:26:02]: You know, for you, And...

Callan [0:26:04]: You know, you cut just hit on this, But what was that, like, balancing?

Callan [0:26:06]: It's...

Callan [0:26:07]: You've got a ton of admiration for this person, but at the same time, you are tasked to do the job.

Callan [0:26:14]: What did that process look like for you now moving into this position?

Callan [0:26:19]: And we'll talk about this a little bit.

Callan [0:26:20]: But you were very successful in this position.

Callan [0:26:22]: But at that time, what was that transition like going from that into that position?

Diane [0:26:28]: There wasn't a transition to be honest with you.

Diane [0:26:30]: There wasn't a transition.

Diane [0:26:31]: I just did the job...

Diane [0:26:32]: Once I got the job, well, when I went I, they appointed me as the CEO.

Diane [0:26:36]: I stayed in my office.

Diane [0:26:38]: I didn't move into Bill's office.

Diane [0:26:40]: I felt like I didn't feel right moving into his office.

Diane [0:26:43]: And again, like I said, I felt it was disrespectful, but...

Diane [0:26:46]: And then finally, the staff pretty much the senior staff moved me in there and said, this is where you're supposed to be and you're not supposed to be in your office is then you're supposed to move into this other office.

Diane [0:26:56]: Anyway.

Diane [0:26:57]: So...

Diane [0:26:57]: Was there a transition?

Diane [0:26:58]: I don't recall that there was no light bulb that went on and that said, oh, now you're the CEO.

Diane [0:27:03]: You know, you're not the vice president of underwriting anymore.

Diane [0:27:06]: You're in wow with the CEO.

Diane [0:27:06]: There wasn't that.

Diane [0:27:08]: I just did the job.

Diane [0:27:10]: I just did the job to me right now when I think about it.

Diane [0:27:14]: It kind of felt like it was seamless.

Diane [0:27:16]: Bill and I worked so closely together that there was, you know, like I I knew all the brokers.

Diane [0:27:22]: I knew all the reins insurers.

Diane [0:27:24]: I knew the regulators.

Diane [0:27:25]: I he was the kind of partner or or boss that didn't say, well, I'm gonna close my door and have this private conversation with regulator.

Diane [0:27:34]: I mean, he he included me and others and everything that went on in that organization.

Diane [0:27:39]: So for me to walk into his position was not a huge transition.

Diane [0:27:45]: It wasn't like, I didn't know the regulator or or he didn't know this this senior reins insurers.

Diane [0:27:51]: We worked so closely together that I have to say to be honest with you, that he don't feel that there was a transition.

Callan [0:27:58]: Well, I mean, that is a that is definitely a testament to what you just said to the team.

Callan [0:28:02]: Right?

Callan [0:28:02]: And and how to...

Callan [0:28:03]: Because all the times, you know, that is a...

Callan [0:28:05]: That can be a very tough transition, especially for somebody that was very close and it sounds like, the way that the two of you operated made that seamless.

Callan [0:28:14]: So when it was time to move into there, it worked.

Callan [0:28:17]: And so you mentioned the relationships with your reins and is we kind move into this next stage, there's a quote that I really loved.

Callan [0:28:26]: And, you know, we talked about a number of these things.

Callan [0:28:28]: So I think at this point, we have a a pretty good feel on those challenges.

Callan [0:28:32]: But now as we look to this next stage, there's a woman named Maureen Mack.

Callan [0:28:38]: I hope pronouncing that last name caroline

Diane [0:28:40]: I am Mc mckay.

Callan [0:28:41]: Mckay.

Callan [0:28:41]: Okay.

Callan [0:28:42]: I didn't.

Callan [0:28:42]: So I'm glad I have.

Callan [0:28:44]: So Marine Mc mckay said, everyone wanted this fledgling company to succeed and wonder if it was ever going to cat get a positive break.

Callan [0:28:55]: And, you know, we talked about all these things that you...

Callan [0:28:57]: We had just mentioned.

Callan [0:28:58]: And because there was a lot of things that happened in those early days.

Callan [0:29:01]: A lot of those out of control, and it made profitability a significant challenge.

Diane [0:29:06]: Mh.

Callan [0:29:06]: And then in nineteen ninety two tiers years after you became president CEO, p hills not only became profitable but has remained consistently profitable for most all the time that you are the leader and to this day, can you walk us through what were some of those things that happened that led to this that led to this consistent profitability and this growth and profitable growth?

Callan [0:29:31]: I mean...

Callan [0:29:31]: Interesting thing in insurance, you kinda hit on it is If you've got low rates why everybody else has high rates, you can grow insurance.

Callan [0:29:39]: That's not necessarily a good thing, obviously, unless you've got unbelievable underwriting that is seeing something that other people are not seeing, but there's been a lot of insure techs that have tried to do that that haven't successfully pulled that off.

Callan [0:29:50]: And there's been some that...

Callan [0:29:52]: For sure that have I've done really well as well.

Callan [0:29:53]: So this isn't a knock against text, but I was curious to achieve consistent profitable growth.

Callan [0:29:59]: What were some of those things that were really different makers in that regard.

Diane [0:30:03]: I think there's several well, several things.

Diane [0:30:05]: But to me the biggest thing that made peace continuously profitable and and still today is the relationship that we have with our brokers.

Diane [0:30:13]: That relationship is extremely strong.

Diane [0:30:17]: And well, we under underweight our brokers as much as we under underwriting business.

Diane [0:30:21]: We believe then this was our philosophy.

Diane [0:30:24]: If we had great brokers, they have great business.

Diane [0:30:28]: And if they had great business, we would be profitable.

Diane [0:30:30]: So we were very strict about the brokers that we did business with.

Diane [0:30:36]: And then once we pointed the broker, the brokers that we believed, were great brokers and were profitable brokers, they gave us profitable business.

Diane [0:30:46]: The relationship that we built with them, I don't know how many times over the years is that if we walked into a broker office and instead, we would like to see some more growth from you They gave us whatever we want.

Diane [0:30:58]: And today, also, I mean the relationship that we have with our brokers today is still extremely unique and extremely strong.

Diane [0:31:05]: Peace hills has never ever had a problem growing.

Diane [0:31:08]: If we said to our brokers we need to grow in this area, they supported us.

Diane [0:31:12]: They gave us the business.

Diane [0:31:13]: And if we went to them and said, you know what?

Diane [0:31:16]: We feel we have too much capacity in this line, can you hold back and not, you know, send us whatever, they...

Diane [0:31:22]: Yeah.

Diane [0:31:22]: Totally respect that.

Diane [0:31:23]: And we still have that relationship with our brokers.

Diane [0:31:26]: So that was one of the things that I think we were very, very careful about who we appointed.

Diane [0:31:31]: We didn't appoint any broker that applied to have a contract at pay cells.

Diane [0:31:35]: And then another thing that we did back in the early days was we strategically said we want to be...

Diane [0:31:42]: We are a small company.

Diane [0:31:43]: We know we're a small company.

Diane [0:31:45]: But we want to be a small company with a big voice.

Diane [0:31:48]: And so we strategically decided that we were going to teach insurance courses.

Diane [0:31:54]: We...

Diane [0:31:55]: If there was a curling club eric K club an insurance curling club, we wanted to be...

Diane [0:32:00]: Have a team in it.

Diane [0:32:01]: If there was a baseball, league, we wanted to have a team in it.

Diane [0:32:04]: If there was a board we needed to sit on, we wanted to sit on it.

Diane [0:32:08]: We made the the decision that we wanted to be as visible and out there as we possibly could.

Diane [0:32:14]: And that paid off in spade.

Diane [0:32:16]: I mean, today.

Diane [0:32:18]: I mean, if the regulator in Alberta is making a decision on insurance, they invite peace cells to the table.

Diane [0:32:24]: And so that was not it was anything.

Diane [0:32:28]: Lot cases.

Diane [0:32:29]: It was fun if you were in the curling leg or baseball league or whatever, but So we had a good reputation in the industry.

Diane [0:32:34]: And often, our competitors would say you know, there's no way he cells is going to survive the Fire river flood.

Diane [0:32:42]: This is gonna do this company in.

Diane [0:32:44]: Well, we just we survived it and we grew and we've prosper, and there's no way they're gonna survive this catastrophe, and they're just a small company and they can't...

Diane [0:32:54]: There's no way they've survived this.

Diane [0:32:55]: But, you know, I mean, after what is it forty six years or forty four years or whatever it is.

Diane [0:33:01]: We not only survived it, but we, yeah, we profit and we grew.

Diane [0:33:05]: So...

Diane [0:33:06]: Yeah.

Diane [0:33:06]: So, yeah, We...

Diane [0:33:07]: We were very strategic and who we appointed as brokers, and we were very strategic in being out in the industry of...

Diane [0:33:13]: Have a an extremely good name for ourselves.

Callan [0:33:16]: It's interesting because I was one of the things that I'd noticed.

Callan [0:33:18]: In some of those testimonials.

Callan [0:33:20]: Brokers were getting legitimately emotional when talking about piece hills, which, you know, I was a former broker that's not common.

Callan [0:33:28]: So what were some of the things do you feel that piece hills has done differently when building those broker relationships because that's not always the case.

Callan [0:33:39]: And I'm not saying...

Callan [0:33:40]: And I don't wanna paint a negative light as a whole on broker and carrier relations but it's not always the case that No.

Callan [0:33:46]: They have a a relationship that tight.

Callan [0:33:48]: What was it from a company perspective.

Callan [0:33:51]: Do you think that pc cells did differently to build those relationships?

Diane [0:33:56]: We are big hug.

Diane [0:33:57]: We don't shake accounts.

Diane [0:33:59]: We have people.

Diane [0:33:59]: And that's true.

Diane [0:34:00]: It's true today.

Diane [0:34:02]: If you go to a broker conference, somebody normal, you will come up and shake your hand, not if they're from peace cells, they'll come up and give you a hug.

Diane [0:34:09]: We make the relationship with our brokers as personal as possible.

Diane [0:34:12]: Even, you know, going back years ago, we gave our...

Diane [0:34:16]: At the brokers convention.

Diane [0:34:17]: So we have, you know, the provincial brokers conventions, we give a gift to the brokers at those conventions When they check into their hotel room, there's a gift from p cells waiting for them.

Diane [0:34:28]: And we make it as personal as possible.

Diane [0:34:30]: We've given them house quotes with their names on it.

Diane [0:34:32]: We've given them on our twenty fifth anniversary we've given them Christmas stockings with their names embroidered on them.

Diane [0:34:38]: We give them gifts that they take home that they can use them in their homes.

Diane [0:34:43]: We did a survey when...

Diane [0:34:45]: We hired a company to do a survey, and we wanted to know what the brokers thought about our culture.

Diane [0:34:50]: And if they were going to describe our culture, how would they describe it.

Diane [0:34:53]: And one of the descriptions was piece is the kind of company that you would invite home for dinner.

Diane [0:34:59]: And so it came naturally for me.

Diane [0:35:03]: It comes naturally for a lot of our managers to be that way, but that's the culture that we created and that's the culture that they still work hard to maintain.

Diane [0:35:13]: Did I answer your question?

Callan [0:35:16]: Oh, a hundred percent.

Callan [0:35:16]: I mean, it is one of those things where...

Callan [0:35:18]: Well, my I'm hearing is this is that you...

Callan [0:35:21]: A lot of times there's a trade off between efficiency and deepening a relationship.

Callan [0:35:25]: You can be very efficient, make things very process oriented.

Callan [0:35:28]: And I'm not saying that there wasn't some of that that was there.

Callan [0:35:31]: I have no idea.

Callan [0:35:31]: I was assuming there was.

Diane [0:35:33]: But There was.

Callan [0:35:34]: There's a line on where efficiency is no longer going to get true productivity because the relationship gonna win on that all day.

Callan [0:35:44]: And it sounds like piece Hills leaned into that relationship side.

Callan [0:35:50]: On, a very personal, not just business, but on a personal side,

Diane [0:35:53]: And Yeah.

Callan [0:35:54]: More than they did.

Callan [0:35:54]: Let's get as efficient as we possibly can.

Diane [0:35:57]: Be exactly.

Diane [0:35:57]: Exactly.

Diane [0:35:58]: That's right.

Diane [0:35:59]: When you go into piece marketing room, there's baby clothes there with piece logo on it.

Diane [0:36:06]: So somebody when...

Diane [0:36:07]: One of our...

Diane [0:36:07]: Our brokers have the baby, they don't get a baby gift with piece logo on it.

Diane [0:36:12]: So...

Diane [0:36:12]: Yeah.

Diane [0:36:13]: Yeah.

Diane [0:36:14]: And we we try to make it as personal as possible.

Diane [0:36:17]: Business is tough.

Diane [0:36:18]: Business is business, and we're very good at business, but we want to be very good at building that relationship chip and strong relationship.

Diane [0:36:26]: Because if you have a great relationship with your brokers, they will look after you.

Diane [0:36:30]: They won't get shit.

Diane [0:36:31]: They will pardon me.

Diane [0:36:32]: They won't get a bad business.

Diane [0:36:33]: You know.

Callan [0:36:34]: Oh, you could say whatever you want of this podcast.

Callan [0:36:36]: Oh you know, it's something that I think we see time it again in our interviews with agents and brokers is that as much as Ai is becoming a part of everything that we do, it's still.

Callan [0:36:50]: It is absolutely still that in person, personal touch, Not for everything, but that still plays a very significant role and really matters.

Callan [0:37:00]: People just wanna work with people they know like and trust.

Diane [0:37:04]: Yes.

Diane [0:37:04]: That's exactly what I agree with that, for sure.

Callan [0:37:07]: And so, you know, we hit on a couple of those big things that I was I was curious about that that really stuck out.

Callan [0:37:12]: You know, a question that I have for for you personally.

Callan [0:37:15]: And and we talked about this one before.

Callan [0:37:16]: And when you became CEO and we're with in that position then also in an executive tear person position, how did you personally continue to evolve as the company grew?

Callan [0:37:27]: Not everybody can do that?

Callan [0:37:28]: I mean, oftentimes you see a CEO for the startup stage oftentimes the founder, And then a professional CEO comes in to...

Callan [0:37:36]: Let's just call it, fifty, a hundred million, and then you see another person come in, you scaled with the company.

Callan [0:37:43]: Was there anything that you felt that you had to do to continue to scale yourself, or what did that process look like?

Diane [0:37:51]: I remember my husband saying to me.

Diane [0:37:53]: So you have this job, and now you're the CEO and where is that gonna go?

Diane [0:37:59]: Like, you have nowhere else to go?

Diane [0:38:01]: You have nowhere else to grow?

Diane [0:38:02]: And And I remember thinking about that for a bit, not that it concerned me because I found what what I was doing challenging for sure, but was there going to come a time where I was I would reach a plateau and, look for something more challenging.

Diane [0:38:17]: And very quickly, I learned that as the company grew as I was growing, and I was learning as the company was growing.

Diane [0:38:27]: I mean, it does not matter and and ensured matter where you are in insurance industry, The insurance industry is always evolving and changing and growing.

Diane [0:38:35]: And media Was fortunate because I was at stage in my life where it was young enough to be able to grow with the company to learn with the company, it doesn't I had great great, great people around me.

Diane [0:38:47]: Great people.

Diane [0:38:48]: I had a team of of executives that we worked so closely together, and we were very tight.

Diane [0:38:57]: So that brought me through a lot of challenges that brought me through a lot of, you know, areas where I got...

Diane [0:39:03]: What that am I going to do here.

Diane [0:39:05]: I mean, I did not have one yes person on my executive team.

Diane [0:39:08]: Every one of those people challenged me.

Diane [0:39:10]: Every one of them questioned my decisions.

Diane [0:39:13]: Are you sure that's, you know, let's talk about it, Let's re look at it.

Diane [0:39:16]: Let's whatever.

Diane [0:39:17]: And my management style has always been and always was to manage with consensus.

Diane [0:39:22]: So the only time I really had to make a real decision was if we couldn't agree on something.

Diane [0:39:30]: And then I'd have to make final decision, of course.

Diane [0:39:32]: But and and I would, you know, I don't...

Diane [0:39:34]: You know, I don't ever recall that I'd ever step away from making that decision.

Diane [0:39:37]: But on my team was so tight around me that we work so closely together that I didn't once feel that I didn't get a support with the decisions that that we made as an organization.

Diane [0:39:48]: And that was my leadership style that was just to lead.

Diane [0:39:52]: And that's where I, you know, learned that from Bill is to lead by consensus, and we all grew with the company.

Diane [0:39:58]: And that's the same today.

Diane [0:39:59]: I mean Cathy, who is the CEO today.

Diane [0:40:01]: She's starting and she was nineteen at Piece and she has grown with the company.

Diane [0:40:05]: And she understands that culture and night and the history and the legacy of the company, and and she works very hard at continuing that.

Diane [0:40:14]: So I think we just all grew as the company grew.

Diane [0:40:17]: We all just learned us as we needed to learn

Callan [0:40:21]: I mean, what I'm hearing you say is that so much of that was about having a really strong leadership team and a team that had the ability...

Callan [0:40:37]: They...

Callan [0:40:37]: You know, they both had the runway and they had the personality to challenge any of these decisions and you can come...

Callan [0:40:47]: You as a group could have conversations until you reached the best decision.

Callan [0:40:52]: And as a result, you know, you had the sport of each other to grow, and it wasn't relying on any one person.

Callan [0:40:58]: That's essential what I'm hearing.

Callan [0:40:59]: Is that right?

Diane [0:41:00]: And that's exactly right.

Diane [0:41:01]: That that is exactly right.

Diane [0:41:03]: That's right.

Callan [0:41:04]: I think the last question I wanna wrap this up on is, I'm sure you get people, you know, you're part of junior achievement.

Callan [0:41:09]: So, I know you get this question all the time.

Callan [0:41:11]: You know, when somebody asking you for advice.

Callan [0:41:14]: Somebody let's just say that's really kinda rising up the ranks and they're really talented, excited or or continuing to move up.

Callan [0:41:22]: What is that advice that you commonly give that person?

Diane [0:41:26]: You have to be yourself.

Diane [0:41:27]: You can't try to be someone you're not.

Diane [0:41:30]: You are strong enough and good enough to be growing in this organization in in this position don't try to be something that you're not.

Diane [0:41:41]: I think that would be my biggest recommendation for people, and I think that for me, what you see in me is what you get.

Diane [0:41:49]: I can't possibly go to the office every day and try to be somebody I'm not.

Diane [0:41:53]: So just be yourself, be true to be true to who you are.

Callan [0:41:59]: Well, I say, I get a test to what you're saying because the it feels like the conversations that we've had previous to this.

Callan [0:42:04]: Whether you're on the video or not the video.

Callan [0:42:06]: The conversations have felt the exact same.

Callan [0:42:08]: And so well, and I supposed to say dan, and thank you for coming on today, telling your story telling piece hill story.

Callan [0:42:14]: I found it to be a super interesting story, especially when I really to dive in, and I hope we captured it on the show today, but I really personally enjoyed it.

Callan [0:42:23]: So thank you for coming on today.

Diane [0:42:25]: Well, thank you very much.

Diane [0:42:26]: Thanks, so much.

Diane [0:42:27]: Talk to soon.