Jim Waterwash's Playbook for Retaining Clients After an Agency Acquisition

Jim [0:00:00]: We've been really lucky that the principles of the businesses that we've purchased have been great at insurance.

Jim [0:00:04]: They've been great insurance minds, but I think what we've learned is try to make sure and remind them early and often we're all rolling towards the same goal.

Jim [0:00:14]: We wanna retain these clients and make sure they have good coverage.

Callan [0:00:18]: Welcome to the Insurance Growth Lab, where we go deep on the growth campaigns and strategies driving real results in the insurance industry.

Callan [0:00:26]: Callan Harrington, founder Flashgrowth and in each episode, I sit down with marketing and growth leaders from carriers and shirt tech and top brokers to break down one specific initiative, whether it's how they marketed a product scale a channel or solve a specific growth challenge.

Callan [0:00:44]: It's no fluff, just tactical insights you can apply in your own company.

Callan [0:00:48]: Jim, I'm excited, there's about fifty thousand different threads I could pull on this interview, but a couple things are, what I wanna start out with, tell us about your first policy.

Jim [0:01:05]: I'm glad you brought it up.

Jim [0:01:06]: So back Me when I was a junior in college.

Callan [0:01:11]: Mh.

Jim [0:01:11]: And I got an internship with a nationwide agency.

Jim [0:01:14]: And my only job was to cold call from a list that the owner had for home and auto insurance.

Jim [0:01:21]: Yeah.

Jim [0:01:21]: It's my first office job and I'm cold calling and I'm hitting nothing and nothing and nothing.

Jim [0:01:26]: I'm getting my looks on the phone, and then somebody says, yes.

Jim [0:01:30]: I'm interested.

Jim [0:01:30]: Great.

Jim [0:01:31]: Okay.

Jim [0:01:32]: What do I do?

Jim [0:01:33]: Go to the agency the owner and he's like, alright.

Jim [0:01:36]: Here's what you do.

Jim [0:01:37]: Here's the information, and get it quote.

Jim [0:01:38]: And I say great.

Jim [0:01:39]: So I put the proposal together, have them sign off and.

Jim [0:01:42]: I said, yeah.

Jim [0:01:42]: You did everything great.

Jim [0:01:43]: Everything good.

Jim [0:01:43]: So I sold the policy.

Jim [0:01:44]: I have to actually input the data to get it issue issued system.

Jim [0:01:48]: Well, put the data in hit in enter, close my laptop I'll go home for the day.

Jim [0:01:53]: Come in the next morning and I have, like, thirty emails from this person of, hey, man, what happened my bank account just got pulled twice.

Jim [0:02:00]: And it was a pay in full, I don't know.

Jim [0:02:04]: Five grand of premium.

Jim [0:02:05]: Yeah.

Jim [0:02:06]: Paid in full, and I'm like, oh, no.

Jim [0:02:08]: So I go into the agency owner, and I'm like, hey, here's what happened.

Jim [0:02:13]: I'm real sorry.

Jim [0:02:14]: What can I do to make this Right?

Jim [0:02:16]: And he took care of it, and made me feel good.

Jim [0:02:18]: And but he did make me call the client and own up to it.

Jim [0:02:21]: Yeah.

Jim [0:02:21]: And that was a awesome experience for me, and I tell that story a lot to my team of this is a great industry.

Jim [0:02:27]: You learn a lot and you learn a lot quick.

Callan [0:02:29]: What I love the most about that is anybody that's ever sold.

Callan [0:02:33]: Any policy and insurance in any line of business has something similar to that story.

Callan [0:02:39]: I can relate to this.

Callan [0:02:40]: I also started out my junior year.

Callan [0:02:42]: I got into insurance.

Callan [0:02:43]: I was at Northwestern Mutual.

Callan [0:02:45]: And, like, I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

Callan [0:02:47]: Right?

Callan [0:02:47]: Like, I'm going out.

Callan [0:02:48]: I'm meeting with people asking them how much money they make, and so we could get the right amount insurance coverage.

Callan [0:02:55]: And, like, I overdraft one of their count, You, because I submitted for everything, and we weren't even ready to do that yet.

Callan [0:03:02]: What is this?

Jim [0:03:03]: I mean, and then you have to call the client and let them know what happened.

Jim [0:03:06]: And you're already fighting uphill because you're experience.

Jim [0:03:09]: And they know you're in experience.

Callan [0:03:10]: Right.

Callan [0:03:10]: That is probably the best part that I did not realize it to you just said that is, if you started in this early, this would have been what I've been twenty one, maybe freshly twenty one, twenty twenty one in my mind, I'm like, Oh, I gotta show up because they need to think I'm much older.

Callan [0:03:27]: And I look at it in hindsight.

Callan [0:03:28]: Do you see a twenty one year old come over.

Callan [0:03:30]: It's like, okay.

Callan [0:03:31]: You know that, guys.

Callan [0:03:32]: Pretty.

Jim [0:03:33]: You know he's green or she's green you know?

Callan [0:03:35]: Right.

Callan [0:03:35]: They have no idea what they're doing.

Callan [0:03:37]: But I love it.

Callan [0:03:38]: Okay.

Callan [0:03:38]: So you came a long way.

Callan [0:03:40]: Yeah.

Callan [0:03:40]: Since then.

Jim [0:03:41]: I have an issued a policy.

Jim [0:03:42]: You know why I got a team that does that because I make those specific.

Callan [0:03:46]: I tell them the story, and then they just surely shuffle me out.

Jim [0:03:51]: Exactly right.

Callan [0:03:51]: Exactly right.

Callan [0:03:52]: So that's a long time ago.

Callan [0:03:54]: You know, now, you've got over twenty employees, over twenty million in premium with the agency.

Callan [0:03:59]: Have done five acquisitions.

Callan [0:04:01]: So a lot changed since that time.

Callan [0:04:04]: Yes.

Callan [0:04:05]: One of the areas that I wanna dive into is two kind of interesting things.

Callan [0:04:10]: So when we first met, when I was at Bull penguin, and you guys were early.

Callan [0:04:14]: You were one of the first agency.

Callan [0:04:17]: If not, you might have actually been the first agency

Jim [0:04:20]: Yeah.

Callan [0:04:20]: On our agent terminal product.

Callan [0:04:21]: I give

Jim [0:04:22]: a little shot.

Jim [0:04:22]: I give a shot on on a hundred percent Chris p peabody.

Callan [0:04:25]: Yeah.

Callan [0:04:25]: Great guy.

Callan [0:04:25]: Great guy.

Jim [0:04:27]: I think I out him for, like, I don't know a year of trying to get him and let us do these leads with both england Yeah before we did it.

Callan [0:04:35]: So Chris Has ascend Well, I love that because you guys were.

Callan [0:04:39]: What you didn't know like, behind the scenes was, this product which wasn't ready.

Callan [0:04:43]: Wasn't even closed.

Callan [0:04:44]: He's a great great salesperson.

Callan [0:04:47]: And so that's how we got to know each other.

Callan [0:04:50]: You had a digital agency.

Callan [0:04:52]: And you were selling a hundred percent over the phone, getting leads from the Bold penguin team's gonna kill me for not calling them prospects, but it's still, like jammed in my head.

Callan [0:05:00]: But you're buying leads and or prospects from bold Penguin, and selling and closing over the phone.

Callan [0:05:06]: So Lot of people wanna do this.

Callan [0:05:08]: You guys did this.

Callan [0:05:09]: You did it successfully.

Callan [0:05:11]: And now you no longer do it.

Callan [0:05:13]: That's a different path.

Callan [0:05:14]: Most people are doing the traditional agency.

Callan [0:05:16]: Yeah.

Callan [0:05:17]: And then they'll start to dabble with a digital agency, and then either decide they wanna grow that or not.

Callan [0:05:22]: What led to that shift?

Jim [0:05:24]: Well, first, I think we had a few different iterations where we thought we were gonna be a hundred percent digital, We were gonna scale We were gonna have this huge division that was just this strategy of of taking inbound leads and selling them and and then service them.

Jim [0:05:36]: And then as time went on, we kind of found our identity.

Jim [0:05:40]: As say, we, my business partner, and I...

Jim [0:05:42]: When we started in twenty nineteen, that's kinda was a strategy, and then one of the things we've done really well is just pivot at along the way.

Jim [0:05:48]: Yeah.

Jim [0:05:49]: And so we did a great job with the digital platform.

Jim [0:05:52]: We still do a really good job.

Jim [0:05:54]: I think what caused us to stop was we're were having some pain in learning how to retain those clients that we wrote without knowing who they are without ever meeting them.

Jim [0:06:03]: Sometimes we didn't maybe talk to him on the phone once and the rest email.

Jim [0:06:06]: Yeah.

Jim [0:06:07]: And so we had just for us at the size of our agency and and the resources we had, it was a challenge to retain some of those clients.

Jim [0:06:14]: So in doing that, we decided right, if we pivot, And then at the same time, we got some luck in some of the acquisitions?

Jim [0:06:21]: It was a good time for us to kind of reset and say, do we need these online digital leads could keep growing?

Jim [0:06:26]: Or can we take what we've learned and apply them to some of these acquisitions because in a lot of ways, it's very similar if you have a person you've never met before, come into an inbound lead versus in an acquisition, You know, we haven't met those customers that we've acquired.

Jim [0:06:40]: It's very similar on how we try to retain them and develop forge a new relationship.

Callan [0:06:45]: Yeah.

Callan [0:06:45]: So this is the area I wanna dive in Because I think it's really interesting because you're right.

Callan [0:06:49]: And I had a field agency and I digital agency personally, and it is different when you don't know this person whatsoever.

Callan [0:06:56]: There's no relationship.

Callan [0:06:59]: It's pretty much pure script, and you're going through those different pieces.

Callan [0:07:02]: But when we were talking, I didn't even think about that insight of that isn't any different if you're buying an agency, especially if you're buying an agency, not where your home office is located.

Callan [0:07:13]: If you're buying that in a different state or different area, something totally different.

Callan [0:07:17]: When did you guys have that first realization that, oh, this is very similar.

Jim [0:07:21]: Probably from the very get, as soon as we did the first one, we kinda realized that what Jb and I had to understand is because our vision was to grow to a certain size and it still is to grow to that certain size.

Jim [0:07:32]: We're not there yet, but we had to get okay with not knowing every one of the clients.

Jim [0:07:36]: Yeah.

Jim [0:07:37]: And that's kind of a tough thing initially.

Jim [0:07:39]: But then once you get okay with it.

Jim [0:07:40]: It's now how can we develop process procedures, standard operating ways of doing things that you can implement, actually retain some of these clients that we've spent money on.

Callan [0:07:51]: Mh.

Jim [0:07:51]: And so that's where I think we have to continue to get better.

Jim [0:07:54]: But when we realized it was the first one and we lost a handful of customers without applying some of those digital tools that we used and trying to make it a little bit more efficient than what they were used together.

Callan [0:08:07]: Why did you not use those tactics that you used on the digital side from the...

Callan [0:08:12]: The john.

Jim [0:08:13]: Simple answer.

Jim [0:08:13]: We're not the brightest penis.

Jim [0:08:14]: My business...

Callan [0:08:17]: That was

Jim [0:08:17]: not not We're not trying to see.

Jim [0:08:19]: No.

Jim [0:08:20]: No.

Jim [0:08:20]: Honestly, that's probably...

Jim [0:08:21]: There's something to that.

Jim [0:08:22]: Hey.

Jim [0:08:23]: But really, it was...

Jim [0:08:24]: We viewed them completely separate as completely separate gross models.

Jim [0:08:27]: So as we had our our digital platform, and we still did some leads while we were acquiring...

Jim [0:08:32]: Yeah.

Jim [0:08:32]: It just...

Jim [0:08:33]: We viewed them as two totally different things.

Jim [0:08:35]: Mh.

Jim [0:08:36]: And in hindsight, we probably shouldn't you...

Jim [0:08:38]: They're more connected than we thought.

Jim [0:08:40]: I think there's a a little caveat in it in that through these acquisitions that we've done, we've been really lucky the the principles, the principles of the businesses that we've purchased have been great.

Jim [0:08:50]: Mh.

Jim [0:08:50]: At insurance.

Jim [0:08:51]: They've been great insurance minds.

Jim [0:08:53]: So a lot of their clients were used to getting good insurance service.

Jim [0:08:57]: Yeah.

Jim [0:08:57]: And that laid a really good foundation for recommending maybe a bigger coverage or recommending a, and, you have a home and auto, but no umbrella, they were more receptive to that and then maybe some of those digital leads were?

Jim [0:09:09]: Yeah.

Jim [0:09:10]: Because they didn't have that foundation built that these former principal did such a great job of building up their clients to understand what quality insurances.

Callan [0:09:18]: Yeah.

Callan [0:09:18]: So essentially, you didn't have to deal with the uphill battle that it was going to be with a digital lead in...

Callan [0:09:25]: Okay.

Callan [0:09:26]: What I don't know you.

Callan [0:09:27]: Two, I'm going to try to get you onto to additional policies.

Callan [0:09:31]: When you came...

Callan [0:09:32]: You were shopping online, and you came for a single minded purpose.

Callan [0:09:37]: Yes.

Callan [0:09:37]: But now that you have somebody that's...

Callan [0:09:39]: Okay.

Callan [0:09:39]: How how exciting was that when you realized that that could happen.

Jim [0:09:43]: Yeah.

Jim [0:09:43]: It was great.

Jim [0:09:44]: And honestly, it's worked both ways because we've retained so of the digital stuff that we We actually wrote a good chunk of it.

Jim [0:09:50]: And it's...

Jim [0:09:51]: What we have...

Jim [0:09:52]: I think, you know, during the hard market, we lost some of it.

Jim [0:09:54]: Mh.

Jim [0:09:55]: But what we've retained is actually really...

Jim [0:09:57]: They've been buying in to what we've been offering in terms of quality insurance.

Jim [0:10:02]: And why it matters and their good insurance.

Jim [0:10:05]: Right?

Jim [0:10:06]: So it's been kind of playing off each other.

Callan [0:10:08]: Let's walk this through, like, you buy a book.

Callan [0:10:10]: What does that look like?

Callan [0:10:11]: Like, what does that process look for you guys when you first take on this book?

Callan [0:10:16]: Deals Donny signed,

Jim [0:10:18]: Everything's things one of the things that we have the advantage of is that we can a, tailor it to...

Jim [0:10:22]: I mean, we have certain things through the integration process that we have to do some of the back office stuff.

Jim [0:10:26]: But, yep, we can tailor largely to what that owner wants to do.

Jim [0:10:30]: Mh.

Jim [0:10:30]: In terms of we can go fast or we can go slow.

Jim [0:10:33]: Sometimes we'll we'll do...

Jim [0:10:35]: We'll make an our position, and we don't do anything for six months.

Jim [0:10:37]: And that's okay.

Jim [0:10:38]: Because we've got the internal process to handle it.

Jim [0:10:41]: Mh.

Jim [0:10:41]: And there's a lot of times where we wanna go lot faster than that.

Jim [0:10:43]: But I think it's very case dependent on.

Jim [0:10:45]: And it also depends on what the clients need at the time.

Callan [0:10:48]: Yeah.

Callan [0:10:48]: This integration process with these digital tactics.

Callan [0:10:51]: What does that specifically look like?

Callan [0:10:53]: What are you doing to retain that them like specifically?

Jim [0:10:56]: I think there's a little bit of change management involved.

Jim [0:10:59]: Sure.

Jim [0:10:59]: A lot of it is.

Jim [0:11:00]: Yeah.

Jim [0:11:00]: And that's mainly my role is to once we get these is to integrate them in and get cultural buy in, That's kinda like the base that I try to build off of.

Callan [0:11:09]: How do you do that?

Jim [0:11:10]: Well, first, it's communicator core values, and what we think separates us in the marketplace.

Jim [0:11:14]: Mh.

Jim [0:11:15]: And then once we try to get them involved in our processes soon.

Jim [0:11:19]: Mh.

Jim [0:11:19]: However, we're not the people that are gonna come in and say, hey, you have to do this this way overnight.

Jim [0:11:23]: So, I think a lot of our change management and our culture buy comes in from, pay, let's go through this x y z process and tell me where you think we might be able to improve it.

Jim [0:11:36]: And I do that with the new folks because then that gets them to buy in.

Jim [0:11:40]: Mh.

Jim [0:11:40]: And they often have great recommendations.

Jim [0:11:42]: Yeah.

Jim [0:11:42]: That we can actually go and implement.

Jim [0:11:44]: But I think a lot of it starts with a, letting know that our culture is one that is first and foremost, let's provide good quality insurance Mh to the customer.

Jim [0:11:54]: Sound advice.

Jim [0:11:55]: And then after that, let's treat each other.

Jim [0:11:58]: The way we would like to be treated?

Callan [0:12:00]: Yeah.

Callan [0:12:00]: Absolutely.

Callan [0:12:00]: So change management's done.

Callan [0:12:03]: You've got this.

Callan [0:12:03]: We've got buy him.

Callan [0:12:04]: Now it's time to actually start to cross sell up upsell that book?

Callan [0:12:09]: What does that look like?

Jim [0:12:11]: So we've just divided out into...

Jim [0:12:12]: For personal and commercial, we have a structure of a account associate, account manager and account executive.

Callan [0:12:18]: Mh.

Jim [0:12:18]: And you get placed on one of the teams of three, and that's when we start to build into, okay.

Jim [0:12:24]: Let's identify accounts that have opportunity and then who's gonna do it and what are you're gonna do it?

Jim [0:12:30]: How do you identify those counts.

Jim [0:12:31]: We've management system, and then we have our standard level of coverage that we would like to offer.

Jim [0:12:36]: Mh.

Jim [0:12:36]: So home and auto account.

Jim [0:12:38]: The auto needs to have two hundred fifty thousand, five hundred thousand dollar auto liability limits to get granular.

Jim [0:12:44]: If they don't, we're recommending that we're quoting it and giving them a recommendation on.

Jim [0:12:49]: Hey, we think you might wanna look at this.

Jim [0:12:51]: Mh.

Jim [0:12:52]: And so far, the reception has been really good.

Jim [0:12:55]: The clients that we've acquired have been open and receptive to this because we approach it for more of an educational standpoint rather than they were the new folks, and we're just trying to sell you more.

Callan [0:13:04]: So how do you manage that transition.

Callan [0:13:08]: Right?

Callan [0:13:08]: Because as I understand it, you have a a little bit of a unique.

Callan [0:13:12]: I wanna say, it could be unique service model where you're doing your servicing as a pod or a team as opposed to Jim gets fifty accounts.

Callan [0:13:21]: Yeah.

Callan [0:13:22]: Sarah gets fifty accounts and so on and so forth.

Callan [0:13:25]: Is that correct?

Callan [0:13:25]: So how...

Callan [0:13:26]: Yeah.

Callan [0:13:26]: When you're introducing this team, you just buy the book, you're...

Callan [0:13:31]: Now, it's like, all that stuff's done.

Callan [0:13:32]: Now it's time to start that outreach to this book.

Callan [0:13:35]: Do you make that transition seamless?

Jim [0:13:38]: So luckily, we've had the...

Jim [0:13:39]: Like I said the foreign principles have been great.

Jim [0:13:40]: Mh.

Jim [0:13:41]: They've all been willing and not only willing, but wanting to help transition those relationships Mh.

Jim [0:13:46]: They care about their clients, and we care about their clients too?

Jim [0:13:48]: I think that's part of the reason that they choose to go with us.

Jim [0:13:50]: The first place is.

Jim [0:13:51]: Yeah.

Jim [0:13:52]: We really do care about the clients getting the right coverage and getting what they need.

Jim [0:13:55]: So they've been very gracious in helping us transition those accounts to our account executives.

Callan [0:14:01]: Mh.

Jim [0:14:01]: So you say Pod based and, yes, it is Pod based.

Jim [0:14:03]: It's more task based.

Jim [0:14:04]: Okay.

Jim [0:14:05]: Anything else.

Jim [0:14:06]: And so for instance, an account executive, their role is to make sure a client has what we would just call maximum coverage availability for what they need.

Jim [0:14:14]: Mh.

Jim [0:14:15]: So if it's an account that has home auto and umbrella, but they don't have their Rv with us while we go try to get the rv...

Jim [0:14:21]: That's the account executive job to go get that.

Callan [0:14:23]: Mh.

Jim [0:14:24]: Whereas account manager, they do the day to database service.

Jim [0:14:26]: So very much reactive, account executive all proactive.

Callan [0:14:30]: Mh.

Jim [0:14:30]: And then the account associate as the behind the scenes changes that don't necessarily need to be customer facing.

Jim [0:14:36]: So it is a pod, but it's way more about tasks and then you have this big group of team to work with.

Callan [0:14:42]: Gotcha.

Callan [0:14:42]: And do you find that there's any resistance to that?

Callan [0:14:45]: When you're starting to calling these people, like, Okay.

Callan [0:14:48]: Who are you?

Callan [0:14:48]: Why are we doing this?

Callan [0:14:49]: How do you

Jim [0:14:50]: manage do that?

Jim [0:14:51]: Well, there absolutely is.

Jim [0:14:52]: And then there's was also the thing with the name, like, wait.

Jim [0:14:55]: So if you think we've done handful.

Jim [0:14:57]: And they...

Jim [0:14:58]: Every one of them hasn't had a different name.

Callan [0:15:00]: Mh.

Jim [0:15:01]: And so we have to address when our email domain is one is social risk advisers, and they say who's this?

Jim [0:15:07]: We have to address that.

Jim [0:15:08]: Try to do it upfront through email campaigns and a couple calls.

Jim [0:15:12]: But the reality is not everybody's gonna look at that.

Jim [0:15:14]: Mh.

Jim [0:15:14]: Or they're not gonna remember it.

Jim [0:15:15]: So, yeah, there's definitely some challenges.

Jim [0:15:17]: But by and large, we've been able to retain more than I would have anticipated.

Callan [0:15:23]: Yeah.

Jim [0:15:23]: Just through trying to be proactive in reaching out.

Callan [0:15:26]: Well, if I'm remember correctly, you said over ninety percent Retention rate, which is incredible.

Callan [0:15:30]: I mean, that's a good retention rate for an agency period.

Callan [0:15:33]: That's a great retention rate for taking over a book.

Callan [0:15:36]: Why the decision to make the transition and add the extra friction of keeping the name and social as opposed to maintaining the name that they knew.

Jim [0:15:46]: That's another one.

Jim [0:15:47]: We kinda decide with the owner and say, hey, what do you think about the name and prioritize it.

Jim [0:15:51]: So there's some where we've kept for a long time.

Jim [0:15:53]: There's some we do right away, but we're flexible open.

Jim [0:15:56]: But what we found is operationally.

Jim [0:15:58]: It's a bit smoother to have just one.

Jim [0:16:00]: Yeah name?

Jim [0:16:01]: And you kind of reduced confusion that way.

Jim [0:16:04]: For instance, when somebody calls in, if they were saying social risk advisors.

Jim [0:16:07]: Thanks for calling on social risk advisors.

Jim [0:16:09]: There's a lot of our clients that may say, who am I calling the right?

Jim [0:16:12]: Yeah company.

Jim [0:16:12]: Yeah.

Jim [0:16:13]: Right?

Jim [0:16:13]: And why we don't answer it that way is because we don't wanna seem because we do really care about them.

Jim [0:16:19]: Yeah.

Jim [0:16:19]: So...

Jim [0:16:19]: And I think that can come across a little this if we say this and then there owns an acquisition.

Jim [0:16:25]: But the reality is we're much different acquire than most other people that are buying agencies.

Jim [0:16:29]: Mh.

Jim [0:16:30]: Because we have such a long runway in this business.

Jim [0:16:32]: We really want these clients to stay and be very happy.

Callan [0:16:35]: Yeah.

Callan [0:16:35]: I I mean, I definitely agree with doing that for sure.

Callan [0:16:38]: I think And the reality is that brands gonna carry through in the long run.

Callan [0:16:42]: So a couple things I'm curious about it is, like, when you first started doing this, what was, like, some of those early road bumps were that you didn't see coming?

Jim [0:16:51]: And say, in the best way possible, but in you're referencing the acquisitions.

Jim [0:16:55]: Right?

Jim [0:16:55]: Yeah.

Jim [0:16:55]: Absolutely.

Jim [0:16:56]: Yeah.

Jim [0:16:56]: Like, in the best way possible, the former owners built these great businesses and their great insurance minds.

Jim [0:17:01]: And I think what is the challenge is trying to make sure that they're aware just how much we care about the clients and the their reputation stays intact and mh that we do a good job for.

Jim [0:17:13]: Because I think that can get lost a little bit in a shuffle.

Jim [0:17:16]: Mh.

Jim [0:17:16]: And if you don't talk about it a lot, you don't make it a priority for them to feel like we really have their best interest in mind, which we believe we do.

Jim [0:17:24]: That doesn't mean they're gonna agree with every decision we make.

Jim [0:17:27]: But I think what we've learned is try to make sure and remind them early and often that we're all rolling towards the same goal.

Jim [0:17:35]: We wanna retain these clients and make sure they're good coverage.

Callan [0:17:38]: Well, I have to assume this is I'm just putting, like, my own personal founder hat on that this is their baby.

Callan [0:17:45]: They've built this.

Callan [0:17:47]: So their clients.

Callan [0:17:49]: They feel that every single one of those clients is absolutely personal to them.

Callan [0:17:54]: And Yep.

Callan [0:17:54]: Many ways it is, Yeah.

Callan [0:17:56]: And that can be hard for a founder.

Callan [0:18:00]: So this is gets probably back more to that change management piece of rear game reassurance.

Callan [0:18:05]: It's like, we do care.

Callan [0:18:06]: That we actually care.

Callan [0:18:07]: I know you've got a way of doing this, but I want you to know we care.

Callan [0:18:11]: So we can start to do, like, things that we know have been successful and led to like, a an increasing over ninety percent retention Right?

Callan [0:18:17]: Is that right?

Jim [0:18:17]: Or I think you're spot on.

Jim [0:18:18]: Think your spot on, and that's where I think definitely we've learned that, and we're still continuing learn it, but Wish we would have known it sooner.

Jim [0:18:24]: Because the reality is is that we might have had some friction, but we were all growing the same direction and we were prop and I'm referencing with, like, conversations with folks that we've required that we're probably a lot closer aligned than maybe when it seems post acquisition, and we need to continue to get better at setting the right expectations up front, and then also making sure that, hey, we're a lot closer aligned than I think we think.

Callan [0:18:47]: You know, one of things I'm curious about is, Dan Snyder, the founder and CEO of Lower.

Callan [0:18:51]: He was on the show and he was talking about because they've made a lot of big acquisitions, and he was saying some of those early ones.

Callan [0:18:57]: When I asked him the similar question of, like, what were some of those you know, road bumps are mistakes that you made early on when going down this acquisition process, and he said that they were two hands off.

Callan [0:19:08]: They were more bringing you on, continue to operate exactly how you wanna operate And instead of...

Callan [0:19:15]: And it sounds like you guys probably went through something similar saying, like, hey, here's our culture.

Callan [0:19:19]: We wanna work you into this and setting that expectation earlier on as opposed to saying, like, hey, Don't wanna rock the boat.

Jim [0:19:28]: Yeah.

Jim [0:19:28]: Exactly.

Jim [0:19:28]: Gotcha And to we candid, we've done some of these acquisitions and then some of these agencies have been around for a long time.

Jim [0:19:34]: Mh.

Jim [0:19:35]: And we really haven't.

Jim [0:19:36]: And there's some table stakes that we didn't have in place that looking back, I really wish we had in place.

Jim [0:19:42]: Like, stated operating procedure.

Jim [0:19:44]: Mh.

Jim [0:19:45]: Well, not having that in place when we did this versus acquisition, became really challenging because we had our a great vision of how we wanted to do it.

Jim [0:19:53]: But it wasn't fully baked out.

Jim [0:19:55]: And so now we're having others help us bake it, and that probably did a little more harm and good.

Callan [0:20:02]: Yeah.

Callan [0:20:02]: Can you dive into that?

Callan [0:20:03]: And what was that that you would have done differently.

Jim [0:20:05]: So I'll give you just, like, small example.

Jim [0:20:07]: If we're coming up with?

Jim [0:20:08]: Okay.

Jim [0:20:09]: This is how we're going to renew, commercial account that's with the can.

Jim [0:20:13]: Or this is how we're gonna input it in our agency management system.

Jim [0:20:17]: That's how we're gonna use this agency management system to help us renew this policy.

Jim [0:20:20]: And here's where this button goes.

Jim [0:20:21]: And here's where that tag goes and in hindsight, it would have been better for us to just build it instead of having somebody that we've acquired in somebody since feel like they had to help us build it.

Jim [0:20:33]: Gotcha.

Jim [0:20:33]: So it's great now because we have this stuff built.

Jim [0:20:36]: So we're way more prepared and way better suited now to integrate and have a smooth transition and really just focus on the cultural stuff.

Jim [0:20:47]: Yeah.

Jim [0:20:47]: Because without having that table stuff that simple thing like that procedure in place.

Jim [0:20:53]: It made it really, really challenging to try to enforce it when we didn't have it in place already and they were trying to help us bake it.

Callan [0:21:00]: So if I'm playing that back, what I'm hearing you say is essentially we have a best practice that we know works, and it aligns with the vision that we have.

Callan [0:21:09]: Like, we can implement these things.

Callan [0:21:11]: We can take...

Callan [0:21:11]: Like we said earlier, we have these digital tactics that we know work for clients that we've never met before.

Callan [0:21:18]: Yeah.

Callan [0:21:18]: And when we're acquiring these new agencies, we're essentially saying it's like, hey.

Callan [0:21:23]: Here's what we wanna do, you've got the autonomy to figure this out versus just like, here's the best practice.

Callan [0:21:30]: Let's get you into this.

Callan [0:21:31]: And this...

Callan [0:21:32]: Is that it?

Callan [0:21:32]: That's it.

Jim [0:21:33]: That's it.

Jim [0:21:33]: Yeah.

Jim [0:21:33]: That was a real challenge and it took us a while to identify it.

Jim [0:21:37]: Yeah.

Jim [0:21:37]: Once we identified it, okay, the next one's gonna go off smoother and they have.

Jim [0:21:40]: They really have.

Jim [0:21:41]: Because of having that stuff in place.

Jim [0:21:43]: But prior to that, and that's just youth of...

Jim [0:21:46]: Our business is so young.

Jim [0:21:48]: I mean, I think I don't know what the average age of the insurance agency is in Ohio or in the country.

Jim [0:21:54]: But most of them have been around for a long time.

Jim [0:21:57]: Oh, yeah.

Jim [0:21:57]: We've only been around for seven years.

Jim [0:21:58]: Mh.

Jim [0:21:59]: So we don't have some of those tables takes in place to other companies do.

Jim [0:22:02]: Now we excel in other areas, and we also never wanna lose our ability to move fast, but having those foundation in place is much better now when we're way better prepared for the next one than we were in the past.

Jim [0:22:14]: If you're...

Jim [0:22:15]: I would definitely agree with damn about.

Callan [0:22:17]: Yeah I mean it's easy to do, and we we bought a number at bull penguin We bought another at the shipyard previous to that.

Callan [0:22:23]: So, like, I'd been through a number of these, And I think for me personally, it was more, especially if We acquired somebody and I got people onto my team, and some of those people were older than me.

Callan [0:22:33]: That was a tricky one for me.

Callan [0:22:34]: That was one where...

Callan [0:22:36]: And it might be somewhat similar to what you're saying It's like, these agencies agency been around very long time.

Callan [0:22:39]: Yeah.

Callan [0:22:40]: And so for me, if I had somebody and they were older than I was it was trickier for me to say, like, here's the best practice.

Callan [0:22:48]: This is what we do.

Callan [0:22:49]: I had to get over that home.

Callan [0:22:50]: Yeah.

Callan [0:22:51]: Actually, I to get over that hump By screwed

Jim [0:22:52]: it up first.

Jim [0:22:53]: I think you're right.

Jim [0:22:54]: I think for me, I won't speak for my business partner, but I probably could to think he would agree.

Jim [0:22:58]: I think it was less so about that.

Jim [0:23:00]: Hey you've been in business for...

Jim [0:23:02]: It was way more about.

Jim [0:23:03]: We wanted to prove it mh, before we just went and said this is the way That's interesting.

Jim [0:23:09]: And so that, I think so subconsciously was one of our things was hey, we get it.

Jim [0:23:14]: And I understand this way.

Jim [0:23:15]: This is the way we wanna do it and we wanna approve it to you.

Jim [0:23:19]: We're gonna show you that it works

Callan [0:23:21]: to get your buy in as opposed to.

Callan [0:23:22]: It's like, you gotta trust up.

Jim [0:23:23]: Yes.

Jim [0:23:23]: And now it's different.

Jim [0:23:25]: I would say it's different now because, over the last three or four years, we've developed it.

Jim [0:23:29]: Now, I think we could more so say, hey, this is the way we're doing it, and we're gonna integrate you into our system and our culture and and our ways of of doing things.

Jim [0:23:36]: But couple years ago, it was way more...

Jim [0:23:39]: Hey.

Jim [0:23:40]: We wanna prove it to you so that you wanna do it to.

Jim [0:23:42]: Until then, okay.

Jim [0:23:44]: We'll do it kinda one way and the other way until we really prove it.

Jim [0:23:48]: And nobody wins in that.

Callan [0:23:49]: Big because everyone's frustrated.

Callan [0:23:50]: And confused.

Jim [0:23:52]: I feel like all I do know is try to provide clarity to the team.

Jim [0:23:54]: Yeah.

Jim [0:23:55]: I feel like we used to be able be able to just out work and hustle everybody.

Callan [0:23:59]: Mh.

Jim [0:23:59]: And now with the team, and then we're a little bit bigger, and it's, like, we're crazy, big, but a little bit bigger, and now it's more about clarity and focus.

Callan [0:24:07]: A hundred percent.

Callan [0:24:08]: How early in the process now do you set that expectation?

Callan [0:24:12]: That's it's like, hey, or is that even a selling point?

Callan [0:24:14]: I could eat probably see it as a selling point, but I could be way off on that?

Jim [0:24:18]: I wouldn't say it's a selling point, but it's definitely something that makes us we'll post acquisition.

Jim [0:24:22]: So it makes us really confident going into something.

Jim [0:24:24]: Mh.

Jim [0:24:25]: And saying, yeah, we're interested in this deal, and we know it's gonna work.

Jim [0:24:29]: And so it gives us that self belief that we need to say, yeah, that we can actually do what we say we're gonna do here.

Callan [0:24:35]: I would say another person that probably needs that belief are the banks.

Callan [0:24:38]: Is that fair to say.

Callan [0:24:39]: Absolutely.

Callan [0:24:40]: Can you they need that?

Callan [0:24:41]: Can you walk us through the Craft brewery?

Callan [0:24:44]: Oh, it's not just Yeah.

Callan [0:24:45]: Yeah.

Jim [0:24:46]: Yeah the beverage?

Jim [0:24:46]: It's interesting story.

Jim [0:24:48]: So we started our business twenty nineteen with a small book of business that we purchased, and then we are growing organically and through the digital platform.

Jim [0:24:55]: Mh.

Jim [0:24:55]: And then January of twenty twenty one, which is right in the middle of Covid.

Jim [0:25:01]: There's a book of business that's only food and restaurant...

Jim [0:25:03]: A food beverage.

Jim [0:25:04]: So it's bars, dis still, restaurants and breweries.

Jim [0:25:07]: Perfect for the time.

Jim [0:25:09]: Perfect for the time.

Jim [0:25:10]: What, most places were worried about staying in business and not going out of business.

Jim [0:25:15]: And also, it was in Indianapolis, and it was a little bit of rough time in there the remember some of those rides.

Callan [0:25:22]: Oh, hundred percent Absolutely.

Jim [0:25:23]: So it was just a little bit of a tougher time, But we really liked the producer, and he's actually our best producer.

Jim [0:25:27]: Still, he's doubled the book.

Jim [0:25:30]: He's done amazing, and we think he's great.

Jim [0:25:32]: And we're still happy.

Jim [0:25:33]: We did the deal, But so we go to the bank, and we say, hey, we wanna make this acquisition.

Jim [0:25:38]: Here's all the details and information, and here's how we think we're gonna grow it and they probably rightfully.

Jim [0:25:44]: So didn't say yes to give us

Callan [0:25:46]: the loan.

Jim [0:25:47]: Sure.

Jim [0:25:47]: Which...

Jim [0:25:48]: In hindsight, I don't blame them at the time, I was frustrated but back because we thought it was a good business deal.

Jim [0:25:54]: So we said, alright, you know what, we're gonna make this work.

Jim [0:25:56]: We really want this deal.

Jim [0:25:57]: So we just bought in cash.

Jim [0:25:59]: Mh.

Jim [0:25:59]: And, really happy we did because, like I said, that book has doubled since we did it.

Jim [0:26:04]: And it taught us a valuable lesson that we need to make sure we have, it's kinda like assess a client and their exposure is is banks doing the same thing for us.

Jim [0:26:14]: So we got better at submitting our submission to the banks and do it better.

Jim [0:26:18]: And actually, that strengthened our relationship with the bank because and we prove that we could make a deal like that work without them helping us fund it.

Jim [0:26:25]: And so then deals after that got a lot easier to do with her.

Callan [0:26:29]: I bet.

Callan [0:26:29]: And I bet that's...

Callan [0:26:30]: You know, you could take that same story to almost probably any bank.

Callan [0:26:33]: Now.

Callan [0:26:33]: I mean, you've got a full body of work, but, yeah.

Callan [0:26:35]: As a proof point within the story, I have to assume that Sop is probably huge for the banks.

Callan [0:26:42]: And, of course, over ninety percent retention rates.

Callan [0:26:44]: So you got lot going for you.

Jim [0:26:45]: Yeah.

Jim [0:26:45]: Not gonna list.

Jim [0:26:46]: We're not real bright.

Jim [0:26:47]: And we tell he each that a lot...

Jim [0:26:50]: No I'm saying my business provider.

Jim [0:26:52]: Yeah

Callan [0:26:52]: Yeah.

Callan [0:26:52]: Who's fantastic as well?

Jim [0:26:54]: Yeah.

Jim [0:26:54]: Yeah.

Callan [0:26:55]: So if somebody is, you know, out there thinking about doing something similar.

Callan [0:27:00]: They wanna start to buy books, Maybe it's a small book, maybe still a bigger book.

Callan [0:27:05]: What is the first piece of advice that you would give them?

Jim [0:27:09]: I would start with try to get as much cultural overlap built up in the courtship phase of the person you're trying to acquire.

Jim [0:27:16]: Because I think for us, that has been a key to our success.

Jim [0:27:19]: You know, we talk about niches for our producers to go hunt.

Jim [0:27:21]: Mh.

Jim [0:27:22]: We have a niche and who we're trying to acquire to.

Jim [0:27:24]: So we take the same approach to these as we would just go to find any client for the insurance.

Callan [0:27:29]: Mh.

Jim [0:27:30]: But building that, trying to find as much cultural alignment from a get just pays dividends once you close the deal.

Jim [0:27:37]: How do you...

Jim [0:27:37]: It helps you close the deal?

Jim [0:27:38]: So but it's less so about that and more so about what happens after?

Callan [0:27:42]: How do you find that during that phase?

Jim [0:27:45]: I think that's asking them questions, and then trying to...

Jim [0:27:49]: At least the perspective we took and the approach we take is let's learn as much about them as possible.

Jim [0:27:53]: And genuinely, we are interested in learning about them and how they do things and how they build a great business because that's one thing about this industry is there's so many insurance agencies.

Callan [0:28:04]: Mh.

Jim [0:28:05]: And I could talk to, twenty different ones and all of them have really cool clients.

Jim [0:28:09]: And I think it's great.

Jim [0:28:10]: They might have different levels of resources and there's been some that we bought that didn't have a management system, but they have some awesome commercial accounts.

Jim [0:28:18]: And so I just think that it's such a great industry, But how we build that is asking questions, learn about their story and then try to make sure we can communicate the fact that we wanna make sure that they get what they want out of their population.

Jim [0:28:32]: And if...

Jim [0:28:33]: Because if they can get what they want, then it's gonna work better for everybody.

Callan [0:28:36]: Correct me if

Jim [0:28:36]: for romeo

Callan [0:28:36]: me, you don't limit yourself to geography?

Jim [0:28:39]: No.

Jim [0:28:39]: No.

Jim [0:28:40]: How much does that help?

Jim [0:28:41]: I don't know.

Jim [0:28:42]: I don't know Yet.

Jim [0:28:46]: We really don't know.

Jim [0:28:47]: Yet.

Jim [0:28:47]: Like, we have an office in Indianapolis.

Jim [0:28:48]: Mh.

Jim [0:28:49]: And so we did that one there.

Jim [0:28:50]: And then the rest have been somewhat near us.

Jim [0:28:53]: So we don't limit ourselves and we're always open to that opportunity.

Jim [0:28:57]: But I say I don't know because we haven't really had to experience.

Jim [0:28:59]: We haven't had the opportunity to experience.

Jim [0:29:01]: Yeah.

Jim [0:29:02]: Definitely open to it.

Jim [0:29:03]: And the Indianapolis one I think is a good case study for us in the sense that it's doubled, and we have a great rhythm and it works really well.

Jim [0:29:10]: And correct me if I'm wrong

Callan [0:29:13]: on this?

Callan [0:29:13]: This is an assumption.

Callan [0:29:13]: I'm just curious.

Callan [0:29:14]: Are you specifically buying books that have a niche that you guys can then just run your playbook on?

Jim [0:29:21]: Would love to.

Jim [0:29:21]: Would love to do that?

Jim [0:29:23]: No.

Jim [0:29:23]: But the answer is no.

Jim [0:29:24]: Okay.

Jim [0:29:24]: So we think that we have a good playbook for a generalist.

Jim [0:29:30]: Yeah.

Jim [0:29:30]: And try to get the most out of those agencies, and we also have a good playbook if you're really niche.

Jim [0:29:36]: Gotcha.

Jim [0:29:36]: And that's...

Jim [0:29:37]: The other things we've got some great carrier contracts there.

Jim [0:29:40]: Grateful to have.

Callan [0:29:42]: I wanna touch on that very briefly.

Callan [0:29:43]: But from, like, a carrier perspective, the carriers that are doing a really good job of supporting this type of model.

Callan [0:29:49]: What are they doing?

Callan [0:29:50]: The ones that are really standing.

Callan [0:29:52]: You have to name any names or anything like that, but you can't if you want, but I know it.

Callan [0:29:55]: What are those carriers doing to really stand out?

Jim [0:29:59]: For us, we try to find these acquisitions that have some carrier overlap?

Jim [0:30:03]: Does that helps an integration?

Jim [0:30:05]: Sure.

Jim [0:30:05]: But that's not to say, like, we've gotten books where we've had a role.

Jim [0:30:09]: In these acquisitions, whether because they didn't appoint us or whatever.

Jim [0:30:14]: But I think what the carriers are doing a really good job of is making sure that we understand how much they appreciate us keeping the business with them.

Jim [0:30:21]: And then trying to invest in us as much as possible.

Jim [0:30:23]: And that's coming to see us which we still love, but then also making it seamless to get our new people appointed.

Jim [0:30:30]: So that's a little thing.

Jim [0:30:32]: But if you're really helping us on a front end, like, the beginning of a relationship, it's likely you're gonna help us for the duration of the relationship.

Callan [0:30:41]: Yeah.

Callan [0:30:41]: When So you guys feel that sense of if the coverage are closed and it carriers too close, we're probably gonna go to that one that supported us throughout this transition.

Jim [0:30:49]: Without question.

Jim [0:30:50]: Yeah.

Jim [0:30:50]: And that's the biggest piece that I can lean on is with carriers is that...

Jim [0:30:54]: The relationship aspect still is well, you know, because for all intents purposes we're just a traditional agency.

Jim [0:31:00]: At this point, we try to invest as many resources as possible, and we try to be super efficient.

Jim [0:31:04]: So the way we see our place our self in the marketplaces is we're more engaged than maybe a a larger shop with a subset of clients, and we're more efficient than maybe the mom and pop down the street.

Callan [0:31:17]: Mh.

Jim [0:31:17]: And to tie it altogether, we try to be educational throughout the whole process.

Jim [0:31:20]: And that's our value proposition.

Jim [0:31:22]: Because we have threes, and that's how we see yourself in market.

Jim [0:31:25]: I love it.

Callan [0:31:26]: Last question I have for you.

Callan [0:31:27]: If you're talking to the gym that double charged this at first to cal, what advice are you given them, what conversation we do have with them right now?

Jim [0:31:37]: Oh, man.

Jim [0:31:37]: I would say keep going.

Jim [0:31:38]: Don't give up.

Jim [0:31:40]: Because it...

Jim [0:31:41]: You know, it was hard.

Jim [0:31:41]: I a producer for the first long while of my career and then that was hard.

Callan [0:31:45]: Mh.

Jim [0:31:45]: But don't give up.

Jim [0:31:46]: I love the industry, and then I would say, zoom out every now and again to understand just how big the industry is.

Jim [0:31:52]: Mh.

Jim [0:31:52]: Because it touches so many different things.

Jim [0:31:55]: It's such a great space.

Jim [0:31:56]: And not only that, There's so

Callan [0:31:58]: many great business owners.

Callan [0:31:58]: Boys.

Callan [0:31:59]: But is that, like, the understatement of the year right

Jim [0:32:02]: now there.

Jim [0:32:02]: It's amazing.

Jim [0:32:03]: Amazing.

Jim [0:32:04]: Like I said earlier, like, one of these deals...

Jim [0:32:05]: No management system and still largely bake for file had some of the best commercial clients.

Jim [0:32:12]: Yeah.

Jim [0:32:13]: That you could come across.

Callan [0:32:14]: I attempted to get out of insurance before.

Callan [0:32:16]: Yeah can't ever everybody.

Jim [0:32:18]: Yeah.

Jim [0:32:18]: It's always it's known.

Callan [0:32:19]: I love it.

Callan [0:32:19]: Jim.

Callan [0:32:19]: This was great, man.

Callan [0:32:20]: I appreciate coming on today.

Jim [0:32:21]: Happy to be here.

Jim [0:32:22]: Thanks for having me.