How Patrick McBride Built an Insurance Agency Targeting Harley Davidson Owners

Patrick [0:00:00]: Ease of use is the most important thing that we can do.

Patrick [0:00:02]: It can't be just about what's good for you the carrier.

Patrick [0:00:05]: It has to be about what's good for the client.

Patrick [0:00:07]: Number one, the agency has to be number two on that list because if it's hard for the client, they won't adopt and they won't work for it.

Patrick [0:00:13]: But if it's difficult for my team, if I have two carriers back to back.

Patrick [0:00:17]: And even if they paid dramatically different, I will do business with the one that's easier than the one that's more difficult.

Callan [0:00:25]: Welcome to The Insurance Growth Lab, Where we go deep on the growth campaigns and strategies driving real results in the insurance industry.

Callan [0:00:33]: I’m Callan Harrington founder Flashgrowth.

Callan [0:00:36]: And in each episode, I sit down with marketing and growth leaders from carriers and Sure tech and top brokers to break down one specific initiative.

Callan [0:00:45]: Whether it's how they marketed a product, scale to channel or solved a specific growth challenge.

Callan [0:00:50]: It's no fluff just tactical insights you can apply in your own company.

Callan [0:00:55]: Patrick, I'm super excited to have you on the show.

Callan [0:01:04]: And one of the areas where I wanted to kick this off was, tell us about giving your cell phone number out to clients.

Patrick [0:01:14]: First of all, my professional recommendation is don't.

Patrick [0:01:16]: Ever.

Patrick [0:01:18]: And train your clients to understand why.

Patrick [0:01:22]: I know that we are an industry that says you can contact me that personal service is what it's supposed to differentiate us from the big box of the eight hundred numbers and all of that, build the process inside your agency that means that that cell phone number is not...

Patrick [0:01:42]: Your customer service is not predicated on your cell phone number as a human as an agency owner whoever you are.

Patrick [0:01:47]: So we were her second year of owning the agency.

Patrick [0:01:50]: Mh.

Patrick [0:01:51]: And we were growing really well at this point.

Patrick [0:01:53]: So kinda jumping into why.

Patrick [0:01:54]: I was going on vacation with my wife.

Patrick [0:01:57]: It was just me in the office at this point.

Patrick [0:01:59]: And just started our second year, when I went on a vacation, the office was closed.

Patrick [0:02:03]: Right?

Patrick [0:02:04]: Like, this what it was.

Patrick [0:02:05]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:02:06]: My wife was our office manager.

Patrick [0:02:07]: So even more so or any.

Patrick [0:02:09]: Any other employee I had to media her the fancy title.

Patrick [0:02:12]: But every employee we had with on vacation with me at the exact same time.

Patrick [0:02:16]: So one of our clients had been to this for about a month and a half or so really talk if guy.

Patrick [0:02:22]: I love this clan.

Patrick [0:02:23]: He's still with us.

Patrick [0:02:24]: All these years later, and we had just talked about how he made had come from Gulf shores Alabama And we were in fact, going to Gulf Alabama.

Patrick [0:02:32]: He was thrilled.

Patrick [0:02:34]: We talked for an hour and a half on a Thursday that this is what happened that we were going there.

Patrick [0:02:39]: We drive Elm.

Patrick [0:02:40]: We meet some friends and we go to dinner at a little place called the hangout right there on Gulf shores, Boulevard, like, on the coast.

Patrick [0:02:47]: There's a beach there.

Patrick [0:02:49]: They have a private beach and a bubble party and all this stuff for our kids.

Patrick [0:02:53]: We meet our friends.

Patrick [0:02:53]: We're having dinner we're looking at the ocean or the Gulf at that point, and having a great time and we're leaving dinner.

Patrick [0:03:00]: It's been whole day in the car drive down there.

Patrick [0:03:02]: We had dinner everyone's tired.

Patrick [0:03:03]: We're gonna go back to the hotel, we're asleep, and my phone rings in it's him.

Patrick [0:03:07]: And like, man, We're getting kids in the car, You know, if it's important I'll callback.

Patrick [0:03:11]: And he calls back right away.

Patrick [0:03:13]: And I'm like, the dude knows on I'm on vacation.

Patrick [0:03:15]: It's a Saturday.

Patrick [0:03:16]: Right?

Patrick [0:03:17]: So this he's only been two days since we spoke for an hour and a half.

Patrick [0:03:19]: He calls again, and I'm like, okay.

Patrick [0:03:22]: I'm getting the kids on the car like, let's buckle car seats and do the things that need to happen, and then I'll call them back.

Patrick [0:03:29]: So I ignore to fall again, and immediately calls back a third time.

Patrick [0:03:33]: It's Saturday, it's seven Pm golf short time.

Patrick [0:03:36]: So it's six Pm local time.

Patrick [0:03:38]: So there is not even a chance that our office is open during normal hours on a normal day.

Patrick [0:03:43]: If I'm not on vacation.

Patrick [0:03:45]: Pick up the phone and look at my wife across the day, and I say, somebody died, I have to take this call.

Patrick [0:03:51]: Right, There's zero reason a client calls who three times in a row without outbreak unless someone die or the gust discount fell off because he never sent in a a report card.

Callan [0:04:03]: Oh man.

Patrick [0:04:05]: I are not kidding He's like, hey, the good student discount fell off, Like, answer the phone like, hey, Patrick.

Patrick [0:04:09]: What's up man?

Patrick [0:04:10]: What's going on?

Patrick [0:04:11]: Like, okay.

Patrick [0:04:12]: Like, I'm panicked.

Patrick [0:04:13]: I think that something's wrong.

Patrick [0:04:14]: I'm fearful or what's going on in his life and his family and the son and his life.

Patrick [0:04:18]: And like, hey, man.

Patrick [0:04:20]: They're okay.

Patrick [0:04:20]: He's like, yay.

Patrick [0:04:21]: Everything's everybody's good.

Patrick [0:04:22]: Hey.

Patrick [0:04:22]: The good food dis discount came off.

Patrick [0:04:24]: How come?

Patrick [0:04:24]: Did you send in the documents?

Patrick [0:04:26]: No.

Patrick [0:04:27]: No No.

Patrick [0:04:27]: No.

Patrick [0:04:28]: I didn't yet.

Patrick [0:04:28]: I'm not even didn't sure I could explain Oh, Call na or may not have been at that moment.

Patrick [0:04:35]: I mean, it was...

Patrick [0:04:36]: I have never given my cell phone.

Patrick [0:04:38]: We immediately put a practice in into place, or, you know, put a process in place and if you need something, Like, here's our after hours, like, you can text this line.

Patrick [0:04:46]: Her phone stops ringing you a certain point in the day if you need something, if it's an emergency text, I see all the texts.

Patrick [0:04:53]: If it's an emergency, I'll call you back.

Patrick [0:04:55]: If it's a billing issue, I'm gonna handle it on Monday.

Patrick [0:04:57]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:04:58]: And we started to train our clients in that way.

Patrick [0:05:00]: But I am staunch against Beyond the O reasons and tracking phone calls and text messages and being able to record all that and keep it inside of our Ams and and have all that for backup.

Patrick [0:05:10]: My cell phone is my cell phone.

Patrick [0:05:13]: That's Patrick's properties as Patrick's person.

Patrick [0:05:15]: So that is one of the key and early early lessons I had to live to experience, and I have not give my cell phone number out to a clients.

Callan [0:05:25]: You know, it's so interesting when I hear that what is a hilarious story.

Callan [0:05:28]: But two, is it's not an easy move to do in the early stages of the business because you feel like you have to do that.

Callan [0:05:38]: You feel like you have to respond to everything.

Callan [0:05:40]: If you don't, you'll lose all your clients or you'll build a reputation for somebody that's not responsive or whatever it may be.

Callan [0:05:46]: Was that kind of what's going through your head in that moment.

Patrick [0:05:49]: Oh, hundred percent.

Patrick [0:05:50]: I mean, you just finished your first year.

Patrick [0:05:51]: I don't know anybody that does incredibly well and has all the money in the world that they're end the first year.

Patrick [0:05:56]: Unless I started.

Patrick [0:05:57]: You know, how do you end the first year in business for the small portion as to start off with the bigger one?

Patrick [0:06:02]: So it's we built ourselves on being different than all of the other guys And here I am making a play that makes me more like them.

Patrick [0:06:14]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:06:15]: And for this particular client, he still has my cell phone, he has not called me since.

Patrick [0:06:19]: Mh.

Patrick [0:06:20]: We had a healthy conversation like hey man.

Patrick [0:06:22]: That was...

Patrick [0:06:22]: I'm glad I was able to help.

Patrick [0:06:24]: I'm glad I was able to call some fears, but that was definitely something that could waited till Monday.

Patrick [0:06:28]: Hey here.

Patrick [0:06:30]: I know I just wanted to get off my chest.

Patrick [0:06:31]: I'm like, cool.

Patrick [0:06:32]: Texting.

Callan [0:06:33]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:06:33]: Text is always a big thing.

Patrick [0:06:34]: So we transition a lot to text.

Patrick [0:06:35]: And we're...

Patrick [0:06:36]: I'm a little more responsive through text even through our agency after hours that maybe someone saying we should be our ethos in the offices is, we're only open for forty hours and week and all of our staff gets an hour lunch.

Patrick [0:06:47]: So they're really only here for thirty five hours, but I pay them as salary based on forty, and it's commensurate to a forty hour salary with everything else that we do.

Patrick [0:06:55]: And one of the first conversations I have with our team when they come on board, I just said it today with a new producer.

Patrick [0:07:00]: Well, if I expect forty hours of work every single week.

Patrick [0:07:04]: Sometimes that's not gonna happen.

Patrick [0:07:06]: And sometimes you're gonna work fifty, and it's gonna balance out.

Patrick [0:07:09]: But I expect forty hours of work during the week, and that's coming in early to get something ready for a meeting at night.

Patrick [0:07:15]: That's staying a little late to make sure that that task gets done out of that service seeking gets completed that billing issue is solved.

Patrick [0:07:21]: Mh.

Patrick [0:07:22]: We're only asking you to be here thirty five.

Patrick [0:07:24]: Plus the lunch.

Patrick [0:07:25]: Well, I expect forty hours for the work.

Patrick [0:07:28]: And sometimes that comes with answering a text at, you know, eight o'clock night because they finally have a minute and they're off work or they work nights and they're finally awake or something.

Patrick [0:07:37]: That's going to be one of those pieces.

Patrick [0:07:38]: So Having a little more flexibility with our texting without bleeding too far into your family time is important for me?

Patrick [0:07:45]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:07:46]: That's how we do it.

Patrick [0:07:47]: So you don't have to worry about getting have your cell phone number and and I...

Patrick [0:07:50]: You know, we're really careful with adding with our producers and the team that we have and hire don't give out your cell phone number.

Patrick [0:07:55]: But you don't.

Callan [0:07:58]: Because no matter what you're gonna feel obligated to answer.

Callan [0:08:00]: Are.

Callan [0:08:00]: Yeah.

Callan [0:08:01]: Even if you put those hard boundaries in place, whatever that might be.

Callan [0:08:04]: It's hard to not fill that obligation.

Patrick [0:08:07]: Yes.

Callan [0:08:07]: Okay.

Callan [0:08:07]: So, you know, what are the things that...

Callan [0:08:09]: Yeah, you mentioned this specifically, you said that you wanted to do things differently.

Callan [0:08:13]: And that's a lot of how we got originally introduced and they said you've gotta talk with Patrick.

Callan [0:08:18]: He's gonna have strong opinions, and he's a really sharp guy.

Callan [0:08:22]: And I really enjoyed our initial conversation, and that's why I wanna bring on.

Callan [0:08:28]: And as we get into the weeds here, what of the things that I really want to dive into?

Callan [0:08:31]: Was when we spoke, you talked about a niche focus that you had on going after owners of Harley Davidson Motorcycles.

Callan [0:08:42]: And Yeah.

Callan [0:08:44]: My first thought was Alright.

Callan [0:08:45]: That's pretty unique.

Callan [0:08:46]: Coming...

Callan [0:08:46]: Yeah.

Callan [0:08:47]: Those are expensive, but I just didn't anticipate, like, a biker gang being, like, that was the niche that you focused on, but I've...

Callan [0:08:55]: As I'm thinking about, I'm like, okay.

Callan [0:08:57]: And then you quickly like, well, I'm not targeting biker gangs bike.

Patrick [0:09:01]: Right.

Patrick [0:09:01]: The one centers are not the percent I'm looking for.

Patrick [0:09:04]: Right.

Callan [0:09:05]: Yeah Yeah.

Callan [0:09:06]: Exactly.

Callan [0:09:06]: So where did this start?

Patrick [0:09:08]: So I actually grew up.

Patrick [0:09:10]: It kind in the motorcycle world.

Patrick [0:09:12]: Mh.

Patrick [0:09:12]: My dad, who passed away when I was very young.

Patrick [0:09:15]: And I never renew him personally, but he rode Moto cross for Honda, my grandfather road, Moto cross for Honda, like, all these things back into the early in mid sixties up through the late seventies.

Patrick [0:09:28]: My family was involved in this and as a child because my mom was widowed at such a young age.

Patrick [0:09:35]: And again did not passed way through anything to do with motorcycles.

Patrick [0:09:38]: But this level of fear was there.

Patrick [0:09:40]: So I never got it to be too involved with motorcycles.

Patrick [0:09:42]: But I was always around the kind of that world and my grandfather was part of a motorcycle club, not gang.

Patrick [0:09:48]: Right?

Callan [0:09:49]: I yeah.

Callan [0:09:50]: Not you clarify.

Callan [0:09:51]: I do not mean that all motorcycle clubs are gangs.

Patrick [0:09:54]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:09:54]: For sure.

Patrick [0:09:55]: They're all enthusiasts.

Patrick [0:09:56]: No.

Callan [0:09:57]: Yeah.

Callan [0:09:57]: So wonderful percent.

Patrick [0:09:58]: Yep.

Patrick [0:09:58]: So I I kinda grew up around it, and it was actually a couple years ago.

Patrick [0:10:04]: I just went out on saint Patrick's Day.

Patrick [0:10:06]: I went out and bought motorcycle.

Patrick [0:10:07]: And my wife was mad.

Patrick [0:10:09]: I'm mad.

Patrick [0:10:10]: She was so mad.

Patrick [0:10:11]: And I bought it, and it was cold, and I wrote it in hour home.

Patrick [0:10:15]: Like, she had to drive me back up there to buy it and drive at home, and it was so cold.

Patrick [0:10:20]: I was freezing the home, and she looked at me like that's what she get.

Patrick [0:10:24]: So I had to tell her and find a reason, really, I had to find a reason why this was going to be a business expands business related.

Patrick [0:10:33]: So the more I dug into how I could do this, I kept realizing the similarity of people with bikes like this.

Patrick [0:10:40]: And I hand that bikes about a year and then I upgraded to a nice really big full dresser Harley.

Patrick [0:10:44]: And everybody who has a full dresser Harley is making...

Patrick [0:10:47]: You know, they're the operational amount of income in our region.

Patrick [0:10:50]: They're thirty thousand other motorcycles.

Patrick [0:10:52]: You know, when you've got a thirty thousand dollar motorcycle, and you have a new seat that you put on, a new handlebars a new exhaust pipes and all the things that people do, a new seat or saddle is a thousand dollars.

Patrick [0:11:04]: Handlebars are twelve hundred dollars plus labor.

Patrick [0:11:07]: New tit for extra twenty five or three thousand dollar, this is not something that every person out there care for.

Patrick [0:11:13]: So if I start looking at the soc economic platform of who these people are.

Patrick [0:11:17]: This is not the bare minimum street bike.

Patrick [0:11:20]: This is somebody who's got whether they're paying cash or they're paying like, you know, five to seven hundred dollars a month car payment on a motorcycle.

Patrick [0:11:26]: On top of the upgrades and accessories, and then all the gear that goes with it in the riding and the touring and all the things that happen.

Patrick [0:11:34]: I started looking at the type of force that did this and these folks own a home, they're typically married one to two cars that got a truck and a trailer that they're putting that bike on.

Patrick [0:11:43]: Mh.

Patrick [0:11:43]: These are the people that have the ancillary money or that disposable money just spend on these items, and they have the ancillary lines of business that we can go grab.

Patrick [0:11:52]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:11:53]: So they own at home, which means they own two cars, which means they have a motorcycle and a trailer.

Patrick [0:11:58]: So instead of one to two, policies that we can put in place with two exposures, we went to five to six in a heartbeat.

Patrick [0:12:05]: Just by targeting people that would buy that Harley Davidson.

Patrick [0:12:09]: And we did this through a lot of content, and this is not my idea, but I did execute but we did a lot through Reddit and we started putting blogs out there on Reddit on which seats you should buy for this type of bike?

Patrick [0:12:21]: Interesting.

Patrick [0:12:21]: What kind of handlebars can you buy for this.

Patrick [0:12:23]: And if you're looking at what saddle goes on by twenty twenty five, Harley Davidson Rogue design?

Patrick [0:12:30]: That means you've got one or you're buying one.

Patrick [0:12:32]: And you're gonna go spend seven another two thousand dollars on that seat.

Patrick [0:12:35]: Like we do that a little bit?

Callan [0:12:38]: Yeah.

Callan [0:12:38]: Sorry.

Callan [0:12:38]: I know I cut off.

Callan [0:12:39]: I wanna dive into this?

Callan [0:12:40]: So what was kind of the thought process around...

Callan [0:12:42]: Reddit.

Callan [0:12:43]: Where did that come?

Callan [0:12:44]: Where that idea come from?

Patrick [0:12:46]: People go to Reddit and people go to Pinterest to go look for things.

Patrick [0:12:48]: Mh.

Patrick [0:12:49]: And Reddit was more of a...

Patrick [0:12:50]: It was actually less expensive to put product on there and if we wanted to advertise, we tried this very little.

Patrick [0:12:56]: We did past to because there wasn't a ton of content out there.

Patrick [0:12:59]: So we would actually go out there, post the content, and it would pixel pixel pixelated that audience, and then we would run ads to that audience.

Patrick [0:13:08]: Instead of running ads on read itself to promote that content, we would pixel the content and then red ads to that audience once they hit it.

Patrick [0:13:16]: So as a custom audience based on people looking at this saddle where these ours or what we had to do.

Patrick [0:13:22]: So we wrote some content, put it out there and we're able to do substantially substantial well with it because we knew what they were looking for.

Patrick [0:13:29]: This is not the fourteen year old kid who loves motorcycle than they're Ji browsing a website and any content he can consume.

Patrick [0:13:35]: This is someone trying to upgrade their bike and trying to find out why.

Callan [0:13:40]: Interesting.

Callan [0:13:40]: So were you hyper targeting this to your local area?

Callan [0:13:44]: Were you doing this on a national basis?

Patrick [0:13:46]: So we'd put the content out there on a national basis didn't matter from that side, but what we would do is we create that custom audience, and then we do a lookalike audience inside of our geography?

Callan [0:13:55]: Let me play this back Make sure I got you.

Callan [0:13:57]: What I'm hearing is you're creating post on Reddit about the handlebars or about these very specific add ons that you have...

Callan [0:14:08]: You know that people that are buying those add ons are typically spending a pretty good amount of money on that bike just in general.

Callan [0:14:16]: And then with that post, your targeting those different types of people.

Callan [0:14:21]: And you're serving them ads outside of reps.

Callan [0:14:23]: So were you just using, like Google search and such for these?

Callan [0:14:26]: Or were you hitting on Facebook or what did that look like?

Patrick [0:14:29]: It was exclusively meta.

Callan [0:14:31]: Okay.

Callan [0:14:31]: Yeah.

Callan [0:14:31]: It is really interesting how targeting on Facebook and Instagram, how just effective it is for this world in particular.

Callan [0:14:39]: Not say Google ads aren't.

Callan [0:14:41]: They're expensive, but it is very, very, very effective.

Callan [0:14:43]: Okay.

Callan [0:14:44]: I digress.

Callan [0:14:44]: Okay.

Callan [0:14:45]: So you've found the audience, you're targeting ads at them what does that ad look like?

Patrick [0:14:52]: So the ad...

Patrick [0:14:53]: Honestly, if you look at any other major brand or or one of the carriers out there that advertise for motorcycle or Atv insurance on that side?

Patrick [0:15:00]: Mh It look very similar.

Patrick [0:15:01]: Like, we know you, we're one of you kind of idea.

Patrick [0:15:05]: We just had content that says, we ride to Yeah.

Patrick [0:15:08]: Trust us.

Patrick [0:15:09]: We're a local agency trust us?

Patrick [0:15:10]: We're an independent agency based here in Illinois.

Patrick [0:15:12]: We know what the winners look like.

Patrick [0:15:14]: We know we're interested to ride in this summer.

Patrick [0:15:15]: We would do a lot this time of year.

Patrick [0:15:17]: I can't wait to get my bike out.

Patrick [0:15:19]: Make sure your coverage is ready.

Patrick [0:15:20]: At the end of this summer, we were running ads that say, we know you wanna get one last friday in, make sure your covered through winter, so we're talking these things through and just all that basic stuff on the back.

Patrick [0:15:30]: And I'm, you know, it's...

Patrick [0:15:31]: It wasn't complicated.

Callan [0:15:33]: Were you competing with, like, a foremost or Geico on those different ads and how did you differentiate?

Patrick [0:15:39]: So I'm sure we were, but we were...

Patrick [0:15:41]: Because we're were hitting a custom audience based on people that were already interested.

Patrick [0:15:44]: Feel like we were really targeted on it instead of just motorcycle interest.

Patrick [0:15:48]: I didn't get every Tom Dick and Harry.

Patrick [0:15:50]: I got the folks who were interested in this style of bike in this soc economic pass.

Patrick [0:15:55]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:15:56]: So a guy who buys a thirty thousand dollar bike dis make thirty five thousand dollars a

Callan [0:16:00]: year.

Callan [0:16:00]: Interesting.

Patrick [0:16:01]: Right?

Callan [0:16:01]: Y.

Callan [0:16:01]: A hundred percent.

Callan [0:16:02]: Okay.

Callan [0:16:02]: How did you pixel that audience?

Callan [0:16:04]: What did that actually?

Callan [0:16:05]: I know we're getting really into the weeds, but I'm super curious yes.

Callan [0:16:07]: How did you actually execute on that.

Callan [0:16:09]: What did that look like?

Patrick [0:16:10]: So they're just going to a blog page that we had, and that blog page just how to fix a lot?

Callan [0:16:15]: Okay.

Callan [0:16:15]: So the post, I gotcha.

Callan [0:16:17]: Okay.

Patrick [0:16:18]: So on Reddit was pushing back over

Callan [0:16:19]: to of the blog page.

Patrick [0:16:21]: Correct.

Patrick [0:16:21]: Yeah.

Callan [0:16:22]: And then anybody that clicked on that.

Callan [0:16:24]: So they saw this.

Callan [0:16:26]: You had some write up on the handlebars or how to guide or something like that.

Callan [0:16:30]: And they clicked on that.

Callan [0:16:31]: You had and pixelated.

Callan [0:16:32]: So now you can target it then on through meta.

Patrick [0:16:36]: And that coming back over to a blog page that's done there.

Patrick [0:16:37]: We did the same thing with interest two.

Patrick [0:16:39]: So it was all running back to that same blog page that was then pixelated.

Patrick [0:16:43]: And that Peg pixel is what created the audience.

Patrick [0:16:45]: We created a custom audience from there.

Patrick [0:16:47]: And this is before some of the crackdown downs with the data in the last year or two that they've really been very, very particular about.

Callan [0:16:55]: Can you still do it?

Callan [0:16:55]: Is that still possible?

Patrick [0:16:57]: I think so.

Patrick [0:16:57]: I don't see why we couldn't.

Patrick [0:16:58]: We don't right now, but I'm sure we could.

Callan [0:17:01]: Okay.

Callan [0:17:01]: So you started running of these ads We'll finally pulls us back.

Callan [0:17:04]: So you started running of these ads, started to see success on that.

Callan [0:17:08]: How did you then build that?

Callan [0:17:10]: How did you build from there to kinda pull that to the next level?

Callan [0:17:12]: Was that just putting more money into ads?

Callan [0:17:14]: Or did you start hitting this on different channels?

Callan [0:17:16]: Whatever that's trade shows conferences, whatever that might be?

Patrick [0:17:20]: Really, it we did it for a while, and we didn't do it to the greatest success that you might think?

Patrick [0:17:24]: What it did is it got me involved in other areas, and we started being connected with more that groups and going up for rides and being involved in sponsoring different pieces, we didn't spend a ton of money on the ads, and we didn't spend a ton of money anywhere else.

Patrick [0:17:36]: But what we did is we became the people that knew about your motorcycle.

Patrick [0:17:40]: And we knew if you had a motorcycle.

Patrick [0:17:42]: Or you had a certain style of bike or been riding for certain amount You had certain assets that we could be the person.

Patrick [0:17:47]: And it almost immediately after that first nine to ten months.

Patrick [0:17:50]: Because we started at the spring through the first winter, and by the next spring, we actually didn't turn the ads back on, because we were already engaged this such a deep enough level with the referral networks inside the groups.

Patrick [0:18:01]: We had perm the groups locally that people were like, hey this and McBride does a great job.

Patrick [0:18:06]: He writes to...

Patrick [0:18:06]: And I had never met most of the people that say I wrote.

Patrick [0:18:09]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:18:09]: Which was the wild for me.

Callan [0:18:12]: That is so cool.

Callan [0:18:13]: So you use the pay ads to get you into the space.

Callan [0:18:16]: And then Yeah.

Callan [0:18:17]: You're part of the community.

Callan [0:18:18]: It was a natural fit at that point to pass it to you.

Callan [0:18:21]: And so and everyone's probably gonna have this question.

Callan [0:18:24]: Like, especially somebody like this.

Callan [0:18:26]: If especially if you think of the audience that you're going after.

Callan [0:18:28]: They're probably are thinking, like, they care about this, and they don't want to just get anything on there.

Callan [0:18:32]: Is that fair is that a false assumption.

Patrick [0:18:35]: I think that's it.

Patrick [0:18:35]: I think that the other side of this is and we didn't do it.

Patrick [0:18:38]: But think of the classic car community.

Callan [0:18:40]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:18:41]: These are people that want insurance on their assets.

Patrick [0:18:44]: They might not care about their twenty nineteen Honda Odyssey.

Patrick [0:18:47]: But they really care about that sixty eight camaro or that sixty seven mustang or that Nova or that whatever year model corvette vet because Corvette vet owners are just fan about them.

Patrick [0:18:59]: And they're all one of one.

Patrick [0:19:00]: Just ask one they'll tell you.

Patrick [0:19:01]: You can go so deep on the classic cars and antique cars, stated value vehicles.

Patrick [0:19:08]: You start looking at that side.

Patrick [0:19:09]: Those plans are the folks that want the insurance on purpose.

Patrick [0:19:13]: They wanna make sure it's protected.

Patrick [0:19:15]: They're looking at the peril.

Patrick [0:19:16]: They're looking at the...

Patrick [0:19:17]: Do I get soft hook and listen.

Patrick [0:19:19]: They're all the same carriers It's just how do to get it in there.

Patrick [0:19:21]: Right?

Patrick [0:19:22]: It's all the the American collectors?

Patrick [0:19:23]: It's American modern and it's integrity right these are the programs are all running anyways, but can you speak their language.

Patrick [0:19:29]: Can you show up to an event.

Patrick [0:19:31]: Can you talk about their cars.

Patrick [0:19:33]: You understand the history or the homage that they've paid in their own ways.

Patrick [0:19:36]: And I can't as well as some others can.

Patrick [0:19:38]: I just love cars.

Patrick [0:19:40]: I am an ent when it comes to cars.

Patrick [0:19:41]: I'll look at them, and I can't tell you the story.

Callan [0:19:44]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:19:45]: Not like I could with a motorcycle for years and even more so the bicycle industries.

Patrick [0:19:48]: Right where I came from.

Patrick [0:19:49]: Because I couldn't ride motorcycles because mom was so definitely afraid of them so I to write mountain bikes.

Patrick [0:19:53]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:19:54]: And I raced through high school and even up to right front left of the marine corps.

Patrick [0:19:58]: I raced mountain bikes across them Midwest when I got out.

Patrick [0:20:01]: I did it again.

Patrick [0:20:02]: I spent more time in that world than I did anywhere else.

Callan [0:20:05]: And I wanna talk about that because I know that's a focus and I'd love to hear kinda how you pivoted, or I wanna say necessarily pivoted, but you launched...

Callan [0:20:11]: Say, you built the playbook, and then you're adding onto to that playbook with another niche.

Callan [0:20:16]: One of the things that I'm curious about this is how did you operationalize this?

Callan [0:20:21]: Because I'm assuming that you...

Callan [0:20:22]: This is right about the time your agency really started to grow.

Callan [0:20:25]: How did you start to operationalize this?

Patrick [0:20:29]: Really it's more understanding what people on a motorcycle on.

Patrick [0:20:32]: If we start about that in motorcycle side, the bicycle side is very, very easy, and it's the same concept as the motorcycles, if you are a cycling ent the average bite sold in a store as fifteen hundred and two thousand dollars right now.

Patrick [0:20:49]: So not the Walmart bites not the department store a big box bites, But if you're going to an independent bicycle dealer, you're spending a thousand dollars almost anytime we walk in the door on any bicycle.

Patrick [0:20:58]: That person owns his home has a couple cars active lifestyle.

Patrick [0:21:02]: He's engaged in this community.

Patrick [0:21:04]: There's a certain number of things that we can assume about them based on those factors.

Patrick [0:21:07]: That's the kind of guy I wanna ensure.

Patrick [0:21:10]: Right?

Patrick [0:21:10]: That's the kind of client we want.

Patrick [0:21:12]: Above average income, homeowner, with multiple vehicles.

Patrick [0:21:16]: Let's start getting those policies in force or exposing and force.

Patrick [0:21:19]: Let's increase that.

Patrick [0:21:19]: Let's show them a coverage model let's show them how we can do personal articles floaters on their bicycles outside of racing or eating dirt Right?

Patrick [0:21:27]: If it's in the back of your truck or in your garage, that performance float will cover it.

Patrick [0:21:32]: Zero deductibles are loaded deductibles.

Patrick [0:21:33]: Mh.

Patrick [0:21:33]: On something they find so valuable and they're so passionate about.

Patrick [0:21:37]: It's a lot less about the coverage on that.

Patrick [0:21:39]: So it's just the community there is how we've done that for the bicycle runs we've made that transition.

Patrick [0:21:44]: And my history in this poor locally doesn't hurt.

Patrick [0:21:47]: But when it comes to how we operationalize for how we moved this in the operation side of our our agency.

Patrick [0:21:52]: We just trained on coverage.

Patrick [0:21:53]: If you have a motorcycle, you've done a couple things to it.

Patrick [0:21:56]: Almost everyone I know change the seat.

Patrick [0:21:58]: Almost everyone I know it change the handlebars, the saddle, the bags, and the mu, everyone has done this much work.

Patrick [0:22:05]: And if you look at a standard motorcycle policy, it has accessories or upgrades coverage.

Patrick [0:22:09]: Typically at about a thousand dollars.

Patrick [0:22:11]: If your default coverage from an eight hundred number or online has a thousand dollars, and we know that you've changed these three things, typically, all of them were a thousand dollar upgrades, we're just gonna move you up.

Patrick [0:22:21]: Automatically if you're gonna go listen your accessories and upgrades coverage is now our add ons and accessories beverages and other three thousand to five thousand dollars.

Patrick [0:22:29]: Yes, for ten dollars more and this is why.

Patrick [0:22:31]: Mh.

Patrick [0:22:32]: When we look at safety your writing apparel.

Patrick [0:22:34]: Your helmet a couple hundred dollars or gloves, your sunglasses your boots, your shoes, your jacket your vest, any of those pieces for you how you put your spouse on the back of the bike or you in the significant others, She's got a helmet in gloves and boots and pants and jackets and vests.

Patrick [0:22:48]: And whatever that case is, you've got thousands of dollars in gear and equipment.

Patrick [0:22:52]: That if you go down, you're either gonna be out of pocket for or the policy pays for.

Patrick [0:22:57]: With a very simple sense listen, we move these numbers here intentionally.

Patrick [0:23:01]: If you're wearing a helmet, it's gonna be a couple hundred bucks.

Patrick [0:23:03]: But I know you've got boots and gloves on, I know you've got glasses on, you probably have a vast some sort of jacket to keep, you know, the road rash down or off.

Patrick [0:23:11]: But if you want those things replaced to repaired.

Patrick [0:23:13]: Anything more than vin specific replacement, you have to have these additional coverage.

Patrick [0:23:18]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:23:19]: I had three different shields for my full dress bike.

Patrick [0:23:22]: I was on short rides something around the all.

Patrick [0:23:24]: I small and on there.

Patrick [0:23:25]: I wasn't going fast.

Patrick [0:23:27]: I wasn't going far Was fantastic.

Patrick [0:23:28]: When my wife and I did four and five eight tours around the country, and we can get on the bike and go six thousand miles and in a week.

Patrick [0:23:35]: Gone seven days, ride five five and a half thousand miles, I put a taller van screen on the front, I put a bigger two pack on the pack.

Patrick [0:23:42]: We had better foot nights for her in different pieces we added to the pike.

Patrick [0:23:46]: If I total that bike in Alabama a tennessee you're somewhere riding on a ghost.

Patrick [0:23:50]: I want every dollar put into that bike back.

Callan [0:23:53]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:23:54]: That's what we looked at.

Patrick [0:23:54]: So we just trained coverage and why people look at it.

Patrick [0:23:57]: It's just like any other coverage you talk about, but why that coverage matters.

Patrick [0:24:00]: When you look at condos and loss assessment, there's a reason you bags that loss assessment coverage at a condo policy.

Patrick [0:24:06]: There's a reason you try to increase those coverage on a motorcycle or toy policy on purpose.

Patrick [0:24:11]: People don't want stock they all customize them.

Patrick [0:24:14]: So types their customizations and you're gonna be in a better position than the had numbers.

Callan [0:24:19]: Well, even...

Callan [0:24:20]: I just...

Callan [0:24:20]: I'm just thinking about it from a go to market perspective.

Callan [0:24:23]: Just having that conversation gonna be totally different.

Callan [0:24:25]: That's probably already gonna set you apart in a significant way, like you had mentioned.

Callan [0:24:28]: One of the things I'm curious about is you now focus really heavily on As you mentioned this cyclist community.

Callan [0:24:35]: What did you do differently from your learnings having gone really deep in the Harley Davidson community when launching this cyclist focus?

Patrick [0:24:47]: Differently, nothing, which I think was the great part for us is Ama already personally and involved in that community Whether I sell the personalized policy or not as irrelevant.

Patrick [0:24:55]: But if we can get into a community where they care about their assets.

Patrick [0:25:00]: They care about their belongings and they wanna have the correct insurance on them.

Patrick [0:25:04]: They wanna make sure that they're protected.

Patrick [0:25:06]: These are things that they've work for, They've dreamt about, they're passionate about.

Patrick [0:25:09]: Let's offer the right protection.

Patrick [0:25:11]: Let's build that trusted resource and let's go on from there.

Patrick [0:25:15]: Mh.

Patrick [0:25:16]: Most of the time the toy is the door that's opening for the hole in the august.

Patrick [0:25:20]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:25:21]: We can provide values.

Patrick [0:25:22]: It is.

Patrick [0:25:23]: Let's just get the door open.

Patrick [0:25:25]: Let's show them all the other things we do.

Patrick [0:25:27]: Listen.

Patrick [0:25:28]: I understand how this happens.

Patrick [0:25:29]: I've had a bike stolen.

Patrick [0:25:31]: I've also had a bike stolen off the back of my truck.

Patrick [0:25:34]: Let's talk this through.

Patrick [0:25:35]: We've been able to do this in the past, we've watched these claims happen in the past.

Patrick [0:25:38]: We know I'm sure these appropriately.

Patrick [0:25:40]: Now if you take that bike on dirt, it's not covered while you're riding down a trail.

Patrick [0:25:44]: That's not how this works.

Patrick [0:25:45]: But if it's stolen off the back of your truck after you're done and you're on the way home.

Patrick [0:25:50]: Auto insurance only cover so much.

Patrick [0:25:52]: Your home insurance is gonna be subject to deductible, and is there a sub limit based on the specific item.

Patrick [0:25:57]: So let's ensure the bicycles appropriately, make sure you're protected.

Patrick [0:26:01]: And then we get the home and the auto at the same time.

Callan [0:26:04]: As you're getting these new clients?

Callan [0:26:05]: It's just from referrals?

Callan [0:26:08]: Have you done anything else to essentially scale that?

Callan [0:26:10]: Or is it you are organically just as you become more a part of the community, more people prefer and it just creates this network effect.

Patrick [0:26:18]: This one's definitely more a community.

Patrick [0:26:19]: We're not doing a lot with advertising on it.

Patrick [0:26:22]: We're not doing anything advertising west.

Patrick [0:26:23]: Illinois has started a high school mountain bike championship series that will begin if I'm not mistaken next school year.

Callan [0:26:31]: Mh.

Patrick [0:26:32]: So we have kind of gotten on that side just from my interest in my experience with racing banks at that age and going into sponsored racing and all of that through the South and Southwest.

Patrick [0:26:42]: I understand what it looks like.

Patrick [0:26:44]: I wanted to be engaged and involved at a human level if my agency might sponsor something, I'm not gonna be sad about it, and I'm sure that we'll try to edge out any other agencies that Might trying to put their name on a Jersey.

Patrick [0:26:56]: However, really is just more being a part of a community.

Patrick [0:27:00]: I think who we are is people matters more than anything else.

Patrick [0:27:04]: I can get into the class car community, but there are people who do it really, really well.

Patrick [0:27:08]: And I'm never gonna be at those track days.

Patrick [0:27:10]: I'm not gonna be the exotic of car guy.

Patrick [0:27:12]: Because I'm out of the track day with a nine eleven.

Patrick [0:27:14]: I don't have them a Karen.

Patrick [0:27:15]: If you're gonna give me one, if you're out there and you're listening, and you give me one.

Patrick [0:27:19]: Sure.

Patrick [0:27:19]: I wear a size seven twenty yes.

Patrick [0:27:21]: Right?

Patrick [0:27:21]: Doesn't matter of the color.

Callan [0:27:24]: So Yeah.

Callan [0:27:25]: What I'm hearing is that essentially follow what you're passionate about.

Callan [0:27:28]: And if you become deep within that community, You're gonna wanna show up.

Callan [0:27:32]: You're gonna wanna go to the track.

Callan [0:27:33]: You're gonna wanna do all those things.

Callan [0:27:34]: It's kinda organically going to come.

Callan [0:27:36]: But you're fortunate in that the communities that you've chosen lend themselves to a client that you really wanna target.

Patrick [0:27:47]: Correct.

Patrick [0:27:47]: I don't wanna say.

Patrick [0:27:48]: We certainly didn't choose those hobbies.

Patrick [0:27:52]: I didn't choose those hobbies because they were great ins insure people.

Patrick [0:27:55]: I chose those hobbies because I grew up around two wheeler apparatus.

Patrick [0:27:59]: So I love the out bicycle.

Patrick [0:28:00]: I love the on two wheels.

Patrick [0:28:02]: I love the...

Patrick [0:28:02]: Forgive the pun here.

Patrick [0:28:04]: I love the wind in my hair.

Patrick [0:28:05]: I really do like being out there and writing and feeling that sense of freedom.

Patrick [0:28:09]: Like, I think for many of us, the bicycle was our first sense of openness.

Patrick [0:28:13]: Right?

Patrick [0:28:14]: It was our first sense and adventure, our first foray away from hall into our own little worrying.

Patrick [0:28:19]: And for me, that just kinda carried for such a long time.

Patrick [0:28:22]: It was such a passion for so long that but I stopped working in the industry.

Patrick [0:28:27]: It really blessed because it was no longer passion.

Patrick [0:28:29]: I wanted to hop back.

Patrick [0:28:30]: So...

Patrick [0:28:31]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:28:32]: Motorcycles were always just a natural progression for me.

Patrick [0:28:34]: And when I got into that world, I just saw...

Patrick [0:28:37]: We went to a restaurants kind of a biker bar, not far from us.

Patrick [0:28:41]: But when I got there and just looked around and there was probably eight or nine hundred bytes.

Patrick [0:28:45]: All of them as nice.

Patrick [0:28:47]: As mine or nicer.

Patrick [0:28:49]: Right?

Patrick [0:28:50]: I was relatively new to the community, and I walked in and I sent and like, this is absolute heaven for an insurance person.

Patrick [0:28:57]: Right?

Patrick [0:28:57]: If I look at everyone eat.

Patrick [0:28:59]: Bikes.

Patrick [0:29:00]: Sprite and and these are well taken care of.

Patrick [0:29:02]: These are people.

Patrick [0:29:02]: These are not biker they're motorcycle enthusiasts they're there, they might have others on, they might have factory jobs, but they're making above average income.

Patrick [0:29:10]: They've got these assets and they wanna protect them.

Patrick [0:29:12]: If you look at a place like this.

Patrick [0:29:14]: If I was gonna drop a pin somewhere and start advertising, you would be on those tourist bars, or tourist locations that those enthusiasts show up to as far as advertising too.

Patrick [0:29:24]: If I could say, listen, I wanna advertise to everyone in this place awesome loan.

Patrick [0:29:29]: If you visited cookies in Savannah, Illinois, I wanna ensure you're home in your audience.

Patrick [0:29:33]: And I'll take your motorcycles too.

Callan [0:29:35]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:29:36]: Right?

Patrick [0:29:36]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:29:37]: But the amount of impact you can make by just being really good at that.

Patrick [0:29:40]: It bleeds.

Patrick [0:29:41]: Right?

Patrick [0:29:42]: And success leaves clues.

Patrick [0:29:43]: And if I do really good on your motorcycle you're like, listen.

Patrick [0:29:46]: Yes, I'm doing a motorcycle.

Patrick [0:29:47]: How hard can concurrent insurance be, Like, I'm more.

Callan [0:29:50]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:29:51]: Right?

Patrick [0:29:51]: When's the last time you upgraded your honda Odyssey.

Patrick [0:29:53]: When's the last time you're Chrysler Pacific I got a spoiler and you lowered it.

Patrick [0:29:58]: Right?

Patrick [0:29:58]: And these are vin specific vehicles.

Patrick [0:30:00]: There's not a lot of exit that needs to happen there.

Patrick [0:30:02]: But when you can get in, understand the policy and why those coverage matter to a passionate crowd of people.

Patrick [0:30:08]: You're gonna be alright?

Callan [0:30:09]: Yeah.

Callan [0:30:09]: The rest fall suit pretty easily.

Callan [0:30:11]: Yeah.

Callan [0:30:11]: So one of the things because you've been very successful on these multiple niche markets.

Callan [0:30:18]: You've grown pretty heavily.

Callan [0:30:19]: One of those challenges that you're currently facing.

Patrick [0:30:22]: I'm sorry pricing and carriers deciding that they're just gonna throw grass in the air and see where it lands to figure out their pricing.

Patrick [0:30:27]: I think scan well yeah.

Patrick [0:30:30]: Outside

Callan [0:30:31]: of that.

Patrick [0:30:32]: Inside that.

Patrick [0:30:33]: I don't.

Patrick [0:30:33]: Think we're doing great.

Patrick [0:30:34]: Though.

Patrick [0:30:34]: Replicating that success and having renewal come from a team that may not have seen that process has been a challenge.

Patrick [0:30:41]: Watching our team grow, and we have turned over our staff.

Patrick [0:30:44]: We've definitely upgraded some staff not to put anyone in the past down, but we've been able to hire staff with either more experience and more capacity to do things at a more efficient rates.

Patrick [0:30:55]: Which is really what we're on looking for.

Patrick [0:30:57]: Right?

Patrick [0:30:57]: How do we do more with less.

Patrick [0:30:58]: So putting some things in place and making sure that our team understands why we did the things when we did the?

Patrick [0:31:05]: The idea right, you love this one television show and all this sudden you're on season four, and you don't know the characters anymore.

Patrick [0:31:11]: But it's still the same show.

Patrick [0:31:13]: It's just different characters.

Patrick [0:31:14]: Kind in that.

Patrick [0:31:15]: Our customers are our accustomed to something.

Patrick [0:31:17]: It is what they're looking for.

Patrick [0:31:18]: They just have to now below these characters in the process we've developed, to ensure that that still maintains a high level of expertise.

Patrick [0:31:26]: This is what we do with motorcycle.

Patrick [0:31:27]: This is why it matters.

Patrick [0:31:28]: This is to hit that loss assessment.

Patrick [0:31:30]: Again.

Patrick [0:31:31]: This is by loss assessment matters on condos there's some very specific things with the city of Chicago and habitation risks, which is very interesting in how the city and how Condo Associations over four stories has to be responsible for anything underground, even if it goes under the roadway.

Patrick [0:31:48]: So making sure that they have all these right pieces and varied service lines and understanding coverage is in local regions, making sure that knowledge is not just the producers, knowledge and understanding to sell the policy.

Callan [0:32:00]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:32:01]: But then reiterating that at the back end, that's probably been our greatest, hurdle with our grasp is making sure that the new hires on the back end see it and understand it's important as much as all of the team on the front end does.

Callan [0:32:14]: I'm actually kinda curious to...

Callan [0:32:16]: And I could see that Right?

Callan [0:32:17]: That is tough because you have to have a knowledge transfer and and they often will have the relationship with the producer, So when somebody else comes in, their natural inclination is to default to the person that they know, especially if they don't feel like they're getting everything that they got from the producer.

Callan [0:32:31]: That makes a lot of sense.

Callan [0:32:32]: I'm curious to pull the thread a little bit on the carrier side.

Callan [0:32:36]: For the carriers that are doing a really good job right now.

Callan [0:32:39]: What are they doing differently?

Patrick [0:32:42]: And the carriers that are doing a really good job right now.

Patrick [0:32:45]: What are they doing differently?

Patrick [0:32:46]: I would say that the thing that carriers are doing well is those that are adapting to the ease of use.

Patrick [0:32:54]: And I know that I'm not the only one beating this drum.

Patrick [0:32:57]: Ease of use is the most important thing that we can do.

Patrick [0:33:00]: It can't be just about what's good for you the carrier.

Patrick [0:33:03]: It has to be about what's good for the client.

Patrick [0:33:05]: Then one, the agency has to be number two on that list because if it's hard for the client, they won't adopt and they won't work for it.

Patrick [0:33:11]: But if it's difficult for my team, If I have two carriers back to back.

Patrick [0:33:15]: And even if they paid dramatically different, I will do business with the one that's easier than the one that's more difficult because I can sell two policies or one and a half policies or renew this faster, or work through that renewal process faster than the one that's more difficult.

Patrick [0:33:30]: I think that those who are embracing that change are the ones that are doing here it right.

Patrick [0:33:34]: And this has nothing to do with price.

Patrick [0:33:36]: I understand profitability.

Patrick [0:33:37]: I think if we've been in this business long enough, we know that the cures has to turn a profit, whatever that looks like.

Patrick [0:33:44]: You have to say ahead of your losses.

Patrick [0:33:45]: Fine.

Patrick [0:33:46]: Do a great job, invest smart.

Patrick [0:33:48]: Have the right doing the job and price your products well.

Patrick [0:33:51]: After that, you've gotta be the carrier that wants to work with your agents and listen to what they say about how that ease of use is impacting hour day to day in our every day.

Patrick [0:34:01]: If it takes me fifteen clicks, but it should take me five.

Patrick [0:34:04]: Mh.

Patrick [0:34:04]: Stop it.

Patrick [0:34:05]: Just stop it.

Callan [0:34:08]: Will that have you stopped using specific carriers because of that or only use them in under or use them less because it didn't meet kind of the table stakes threshold that you have for that?

Patrick [0:34:21]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:34:21]: There's specific carriers we walked away from completely.

Patrick [0:34:23]: And we have migrated those books.

Patrick [0:34:25]: And and again, our agencies.

Patrick [0:34:26]: It we're relatively the young agency, but to make the decision it's such a young age to say, listen, we're gonna walk away from this because of the difficulty nature.

Patrick [0:34:34]: And there are some careers out there who are really, really easy to work with and we can get home folks with, you know, five, six, seven questions, but their rate adjustments have been so erratic, you can't work with them.

Patrick [0:34:45]: So there is a blend and making sure that our team knows what to look at, But we've gone three in certain carriers, and I won't name their names.

Patrick [0:34:53]: But, yeah.

Patrick [0:34:53]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:34:53]: We've put moratorium internally on using certain products.

Patrick [0:34:56]: We're using certain benefits of a product because how it impacts long term and making sure that our team does, that's a good selling feature, and the carrier is gonna tell you this all day long.

Patrick [0:35:07]: And they're gonna say that's what sets them apart.

Patrick [0:35:08]: But when a change happens and you see three years where the rate adjustment happen.

Patrick [0:35:12]: All of a sudden.

Patrick [0:35:13]: That's not good for the client.

Patrick [0:35:15]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:35:15]: And that's not good for our relationship with the client.

Patrick [0:35:17]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:35:18]: So making sure that ease of use in ease of doing business is the most important thing I think we can work on it out as an industry.

Callan [0:35:24]: For sure.

Callan [0:35:24]: And it's, of course, a super hot topic if you go to Chart tech connect or if you go to Church tech insights whatever that might be.

Callan [0:35:31]: Always a hot topic.

Callan [0:35:33]: Patrick, less question that I have for you is you're starting the agency over from day one.

Callan [0:35:41]: Is there anything that you would do different?

Callan [0:35:43]: Now, of course, like you got here by making the mistakes and things like that.

Callan [0:35:48]: But let's just say sold the agency tomorrow started a new agency or we're coaching is somebody else to start a scratch agency, what would you tell them based on what you would do differently?

Patrick [0:35:59]: So weirdly enough to say that I actually sat with a friend in this last week, and he's in the industry and he doesn't own an agency.

Patrick [0:36:05]: He does a lot inside the marketing space and has for years.

Patrick [0:36:08]: We are planning a kind of a breakout weekend.

Patrick [0:36:12]: Where we're gonna lock ourselves in a hotels, suite, and we're gonna go through and say, okay.

Patrick [0:36:17]: We're here.

Patrick [0:36:17]: If I were to tear it all down again, how would I adjust what we're doing.

Patrick [0:36:20]: Mh.

Patrick [0:36:21]: Because we had to build from when you started scratch with zero new customers, and we walked away from a captive that didn't we didn't get to sell it back to them.

Callan [0:36:30]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:36:30]: Right?

Patrick [0:36:30]: So we started with the money in my savings account, which was clearly have to get us here.

Patrick [0:36:35]: And I've heard Brand flowers and said this before.

Patrick [0:36:37]: Like, I started and was what I thought was enough money, and it was nowhere near enough money.

Patrick [0:36:41]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:36:42]: That's always to case.

Patrick [0:36:43]: Right.

Patrick [0:36:44]: For sure.

Patrick [0:36:45]: Right.

Patrick [0:36:45]: Again, I think if you are served with a small fortunate at the end of the year, you start with a big one.

Patrick [0:36:49]: But we started with the money that the the savings that was on our account, and we had to look at sales number one.

Patrick [0:36:57]: How do we sell a?

Patrick [0:36:58]: So number one marketing, how do we get people to call our phone?

Patrick [0:37:00]: Two, how do we follow up and sell a policy?

Callan [0:37:04]: Mh.

Patrick [0:37:04]: The persist rate and how do we continue to to drive that close rate?

Patrick [0:37:07]: Even if it's not in two weeks, even it's not in three to four context?

Patrick [0:37:10]: What if it's twelve or fifteen?

Patrick [0:37:11]: What if it's forty days later?

Patrick [0:37:13]: So that was number two.

Patrick [0:37:14]: Number three is, once we sell the policy, how do we onboard that client?

Patrick [0:37:18]: And then it was, how do we renew the client?

Patrick [0:37:20]: If I was gonna do it again, it would be number one, how do we have the best renewal experience ever?

Patrick [0:37:26]: Mh.

Patrick [0:37:26]: How do we have the most information available to the customers with a click of amounts?

Patrick [0:37:31]: How do we renew people at a high enough rate or at high enough excellence rate that the rate adjustment that they're gonna face is such a small part of the conversation?

Patrick [0:37:41]: Second would be, how do we do the policy endorsements and service?

Patrick [0:37:45]: How do we maintain a high level of proficiency and speed with doing those endorsements?

Patrick [0:37:50]: How much is being done with technology?

Patrick [0:37:52]: There's Ai and those Ai conversations and agent Ai conversations versus virtual employees versus our staff and employees.

Patrick [0:37:59]: And really, it's only one of two ways.

Patrick [0:38:01]: Do I have a robot that could do this for me.

Patrick [0:38:02]: Do I have a human.

Patrick [0:38:03]: I don't care where that human is in the world or what we pay them.

Patrick [0:38:06]: There's only two ways to do that currently.

Patrick [0:38:08]: It's either robots or people?

Patrick [0:38:09]: That's it.

Patrick [0:38:10]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:38:10]: How do we then service that customer and then back into onboarding?

Patrick [0:38:14]: How do we make sure that they're transition from where they've been to where they are is brilliant.

Patrick [0:38:19]: And then we can back into the sales side?

Patrick [0:38:22]: So when you're scratch, you have to sell.

Patrick [0:38:26]: Right?

Patrick [0:38:26]: And I think everyone talks about this.

Patrick [0:38:28]: When you start, you're gonna sell everything, and then you're gonna narrow your focus under gonna say no to a lot more.

Patrick [0:38:32]: There's a lot of plans that come to us today if you're a six month auto and you're only a mono light auto and you've had a gap and insurance you a minimum pay in full on a six month policy for us.

Patrick [0:38:40]: Period.

Patrick [0:38:41]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:38:42]: The likelihood that you cancel next months because you want your money back is slim because you don't most of those clients don't think about it.

Patrick [0:38:49]: I'll sell it, but only if you're gonna pay in full.

Patrick [0:38:52]: And we have a business coming in.

Patrick [0:38:54]: I don't need that premium to make payroll next month.

Patrick [0:38:58]: It's a want not a need.

Patrick [0:38:59]: So starting at the back end, I would look at the renewal first, then service, then onboarding, and then I would back into sales and marketing on that side.

Patrick [0:39:07]: If you can do those things well, year two and year three and your four, it makes your one and your two worth it.

Callan [0:39:14]: Yep.

Callan [0:39:14]: Well, it's so true these businesses, but especially when you're go and scratch.

Callan [0:39:17]: It's not till you're five where you really start making any type of meaningful money even if you're crushing it because so much just goes to that acquisition cost.

Callan [0:39:26]: Yeah.

Callan [0:39:26]: And if they're falling out on the back, some of the best businesses that are out there period.

Callan [0:39:30]: So our private equity saliva over them.

Callan [0:39:32]: Yeah.

Callan [0:39:32]: Because of a strong renewal process.

Callan [0:39:35]: So that makes total sense.

Callan [0:39:37]: Patrick This was a blast man.

Callan [0:39:39]: I appreciate you coming on.

Callan [0:39:40]: I was excited for this, and you delivered on what I was excited about.

Callan [0:39:44]: So thank you again for coming on.

Patrick [0:39:47]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:39:47]: I'm absolutely love to man.

Patrick [0:39:47]: I think if you'll notice, I don't think you had my cell phone number either.

Patrick [0:39:51]: So just to kind of bring this whole circle call.

Callan [0:39:56]: I don't give anybody myself

Patrick [0:39:58]: or ready.

Patrick [0:39:58]: Nobody gets myself, Remember.

Patrick [0:40:00]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:40:00]: That's really not true.

Patrick [0:40:02]: I give it out like it's candy.

Patrick [0:40:03]: But just not to customers.

Patrick [0:40:04]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:40:05]: Yeah.

Callan [0:40:07]: I love it.

Callan [0:40:07]: Awesome, Patrick.

Callan [0:40:08]: Thanks for coming on, brother.

Patrick [0:40:10]: Yeah.

Patrick [0:40:10]: I absolutely.

Patrick [0:40:11]: Thanks for having me.